Job Discussion Forums

[NathanRahl]

I am sitting here browsing google, and looking at recruiter after recruiter, and I am just wondering, how do they work?

I mean, I know how they do their job, but I suppose I was gifted, or cursed, with an overly inquisitive nature. So, I wanted to ask, doe's anyone know.

I find myself wondering first off, how do they get paid. Some of these recruiters are based in america, canada, all over the place. How can they trust a school to pay them once that school has it's students? With the way the chinese do business, well, I am sure they could think of any number of reasons as excuses not to pay, how does the recruiter then get his money? Seems to me like it is not so reliable a way to make a living, at least knowing as little as I do about the subject.

Then of course, when doe's he get paid, when the person he found signs the contract, half before, half after? Seems a rather shady affair to me, and as I said before, not so reliable.

Then of course, what types of recruiters are there? I have been told that some schools use agencies because they are not licensed to hire foreign teachers, and some agencies act as both employers, and recruiters. Others simply act as recruiters, just getting a nominal fee once the teacher is placed. The ones who get a fee, I wonder, how much it is? Can't be that substantial, what with as tight fisted as these schools are with thier doe.

It is all very confusing, which is again, why I ask if anyone can shed some light on the subject.

The world of recruiting plays a big part in the world of esl teaching, yet we do not know a lot more it as a whole. So, if anybody out there knows the in's and out's of these folks, I think it would be great for more of us to know the skinny on them, and how they work, if you know what I mean. Well thanks, and take care

[bearcanada]

The typical fee paid to a (legitimate) recruiter ranges from 2,000 to 2,500 RMB per teacher. Part of that fee is paid when a teacher signs a contract, and the balance after 3 or 6 months. The payment timing is negotiable, but usually 30% down and the balance later. This fee is not related to the teacher's salary, and will not affect the salary. The fee generally varies within the range above, according to a teacher's academic qualifications.

There are recruiters who deal with the unlicensed schools, and who charge whatever they can, at both ends. Often, they will negotiate a 5,000 RMB monthly salary for a teacher, and then take 2,000 of it each month as their fee. Many of the scam schools will make an allowance of 5,000 or 6,000 per teacher and disburse it in any way the recruiter wants.

Sometimes they will entice a teacher into coming to China for a job that doesn't exist, and then 'sell' the teacher to any school that will take him or her - usually the unlicensed ones - and often will demand (and receive) 10,000 RMB or more as a cash payment up front.

The recruiters who work for the licensed, accredited schools and universities generally follow the summary in the first paragraph above. The others do whatever they can to grab as much money as possible. Some of them try to charge fees from the teacher as well, collecting from both ends.

Hope this helps.

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[Malsol]

At least you have some knowlege of your own business sector after all.

Congrats!

[vikdk]

[Steppenwolf]

I know an FT who engineered a deal with a well-known agent to be subcontracted as recruiter of FTs from his own home country. The guy thought it was going to be profitable.

He was grievously mistaken.
All his compatriots that he managed to get interested in vacancies in China stole his time over weeks and months by asking lame repeat questions that he thought he had answered in his FAQ.

A few finally were netted and his upline did shell out the dough he had been promsied but the majority of applicants simply were a pain in his ass!

[vikdk]

[NathanRahl]

Hmm, I had no idea, geez. However finding teachers is not all that easy I would not think. You have to convince them, get them to come to china, deal with them for weeks, sometimes even months. 2,500 seems fair enough for this. 10,000, now thats crazy I think, I'm amazed that people actually get this. How does someone have the nerve to ask for so much money, geez.

I specilly don't like the ones who are getting piece of the teachers salary, that just miffs me big time

Just as with any business, there is god, and bad, I think any more info would really help those who are coming, or thining about comng to china. These recruiters can play a huge part in our job, best we know all there is to know about them I think.

[WordUp]

A good recruiter puts themselves right in the middle and gaurantees both parties

school: a quality educator who won't breach their contract and will uphold certain standards that the school requires

teacher: a school that will pay what it promises, and follow the agreement that offers a fair market wage based on the experience of the teacher.

A good recruiter knows both customers and provides correct unbiased information to each and will never garnish salary.

A good recruiter takes accepts the risk that should either party breach their contract in a certain period of time, the recruiter will accept responsibility for (finding a not so suitable teacher / not so suitable school) and make remedy to the situation. A recruiter should be paid on the risk she accepts and the service provided and not measured against a perceived standard by ignorant trollers who got burned because they themseves failed in their due diligence.

Unfortunately, most Chinese recruiter companys job is finished once placement has been made.. They are paper tigers. They cast their lines out to esl fish who swim in the breeze and hope to catch a good one by a brief examination of the periphery.. Their risk is really high, for they have no influence over the esl fish they catch.. should it turn out not to be a keeper.. Their frustrain in life is measured in teacher turnover and cost of delays because of the frequency of changed minds..

I came to China with a good recruiter and I'm glad I did.
Read here more about ways to come to china..

http://journeyeast.org/TeachEnglishinChina/TeachingEnglishInChina.htm


cheers

[bearcanada]

Dear WordUp;

So: "I came to China with a good recruiter and I'm glad I did."

Really? I don't think so. If you did 'come to China', it wasn't to teach English. Am I correct in assuming you are part of the Journey East organisation that recruits teachers for China? Maybe you should just tell readers that, instead of pretending to be a teacher who is so happy he used your company's services.

BTW, your brand of Chinglish is one of the most interesting I've ever seen. You might want to do a Google search on mixing metaphors. Your 'esl fish who swim in the breeze' is truly endearing.

And of course, the 'paper tigers conducting a brief examination of the periphery will indeed have much frustrain in life. Couldn't have said it better myself.


.

[vikdk]

Newbies - beware of recruiters writing in sheep's clothing - do a check on the history of WordUp's posts (just click on his name and you'll see how that function works) - after reading them you'll see there's maybe something in what the bear writes (by the way the bear also seems to be a recruiter) - kind of gives you an idea on the way some of 'em may operate

[bearcanada]

Bearcanada does do some recruiting for a few select universities, but our teachers are generally hired directly from their home countries.

As an addendum to my previous comments, and for those who think it might be easy money, I offer the following:

A recruiter might have contact with 700 or 800 teachers and, after weeding out the uninterested, the unqualified, the flaky and the incompetent or unsuitable, there might be 100 left - of whom the institution might reject another 40. Filtering 800 CVs, credentials, references, is tedious, time-consuming, frustrating and sometimes maddening.

Lengthy, detailed correspondence with each teacher is part of the job, as is trying to assess and evaluate people, personalities and credentials and finding a good match for a department.

It's unfortunate, but doing the job well means low hourly pay. I envy the James Zhangs of the world; they're the ones driving the BMWs. It's an evil business model but it pays well.

.

[WordUp]

I am not a recruiter. I'm a lawyer turned ESL teacher (enjoyed my time) and soon heading back to law.. my affiliation as vidk points out is well illustrated.

[clark.w.griswald]

This is one time that I am in agreeance with vikdk.

Bearcanada is a recruiter even if he words it otherwise:

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/LarryRomanoffAdviceToTeachers.shtml

Wordup obviously has some relationship to Journeyeast even if he isn't open about it. The regular recommendations stand out as does the fact that the visa site in his signature is a site related to the Journeyeast site as well as a couple of the many 'spoof' sites that the guys from Journeyeast have registered - this includes a spoof of the site that I am involved with.

What do I mean by spoof site? Well it is one of those sites that trades off the 'famous' web names of others for the purposes of generating income from google adwords. In my case you can check out the spoof site www.buxiban.net. If you do a whois of that site you get BESI LLC. If you do a whois of Journeyeast you get BESI LLC. And if you do the visa site in Wordup's signature you get BESI LLC.

Why do I agree with vikdk? Well I just feel that disclosure is in everyone's best interests!

[vikdk]

oooh deary me Clark

[clark.w.griswald]

Vikdk what you are referring to is not what I mean by disclosure.

I don't care who a person is, where they come from, nor what academic qualifications or experiences he or she may or may not have. If this sort of information is important to you in measuring your worth against others then feel free to ask it, but be big enough to accept when people choose not to participate in such a 'contest'.

What I am referring to is disclosure of business interests as they pertain to posts made here. I have nothing against Bearcanada nor Wordup and in fact I would say that most of the information they give out is pretty accurate (with the exception of Bearcanadas initial incorrect conclusions about a certain site). I also have nothing against recruiters in general. I just think that if there is a recruiter using this site and they refer to their own services then they should at least admit that they have a relationship to those services.