Job Discussion Forums

[markle]

Isn't it interesting that the people advocating that Japanese lack critical thinking seem to display fairly weak critical thinking themselves.

Couple of points:

If Japanese students are capable of displaying critical thinking how would you know? The reticence that comes from speaking L2 has been addressed so you would need to be pretty good at the students L1 to grasp a Japanese students display of critical thinking.

The crux of the situation has less to do with capacity to think critically than the expession thereof. I mean unless you can read a persons mind, how can you know what they are really thinking unless they express it somehow. This is where most of the confusion is created. I do think that Japanese are less inclinded to express 'what is on their mind' and certainly less directly than what Westerners are used to.
This is where education (as well as cultural and social assimilation) plays a part. I tend to agree with the point that formal education plays very little role in the development of critical thinking (certainly by high school) but it does play a significant role in encouraging and fostering the expression of it. Having said that formal education is dwarfed by the influence cultural and social forces play.

As for the question why Japanese students apparently can't (or won't) answer the "why" question my response would be that maybe they couldn't be bothered. Maybe they think your question is pointless and stupid, maybe they think you are pointless and stupid. I don't know, I'm not arrogant enough to think I know what my students are thinking or not.

[Chris21]

[furiousmilksheikali]

[markle]

[furiousmilksheikali]

markle, your post is insufferably smug. It is all the worse for the apparent boasting of your own critical thinking skills when your post is a very poor showcase for them. Your points are further undermined by the grammatical errors which litter it.

[markle]

[markle]

[furiousmilksheikali]

[markle]

[Chris21]

[johanne]

[furiousmilksheikali]

The statistics that you posted there make it a little difficult to determine what kind of problem-solving exercises were given and how the results were arrived at.

I think the problem that this thread has had is that the question regarding "critical thinking" skills has not been properly formulated. What is everyone arguing for or against?

That "critical thinking" skills are not taught? Or that Japanese people innately lack them? Or Japanese students don't feel the need to use them in the English classroom? Or that some teachers are poor at recognizing "critical thinking" skills? Or "Japanese culture" is averse to such skills?

[gaijinalways]

It depends on the kind of problem solving that is involved. Certainly, if we are looking at mathematical type problems, which I suspect the test was based on, many Japanese would probably be quicker at that as these kinds of problems are often brute calculation types. If we are looking at more open ended types of problems, like in the book 'How would you move Mt Fuji and other Microsoft interview questions', I also suspect the Japanese would not fare very well on this sort of test, which is closer to a logic test (which should test critical thinking better than just a straight mathematics test), rather than straightforward mathematical calculations.

I think another example from Japanese culture might be suitable. Look at the service industry in Japan, where servers become unglued when you ask questions not covered in their company manual. As long as you ask things within the scope of the manual, all is okay. Once you stray outside, chaos is your uncle ! Contrast this with the US, where if you want a cheeseburger, and it's not on the menu, if they have a hamburger and cheese, they'll make it. Usually no question about it except the extra charge for the cheese.

Guest, you're right. I hope the OP and the rest of us as well, never meant to imply that it's not possible for Japanese or a certain gender, religious background, ethnic group, etc. to use critical thinking; rather people here generally don't seem very good at doing so because of the lack of training within their education system and within their tradtional cultural upbringing.

Compared to the American system, where people are taught to question the teacher (though it doesn't always get you a higher grade ), the Japanese education system of absorb and regurgitate doesn't require much critical thinking (if any) rather good memory skills (which learning kanji has already built up).

[gaijinalways]

Here are three examples of problems from the site. I would post them here, but I am unable to and shouldn't because of possible copyright infringements. Seems to me the problems are mathematical involving multiple constraints (I took a upper level calculus course where we worked on these kinds of problems). Nowadays it would usually be solved with the aid of a computer, which could give you most of the possible choices within the constraints given (actually in the course I took, the professor mentioned even then, back in 1981, that is how these kinds of problems were usually solved).

The problems on the test are easier (we did up to 6-7 constraints-type problems), but if you practice these kinds of problems, you get better at them. In the US, we don't spend as much time on this type of math in early high school, which aids in solving these problems, whereas in Japan, they see it much earlier and more often (the breath of math covered in Japan is much broader at earlier ages than the US, but not as deep).

But, unless I am stranded on a remote island with no computer, I don't think I need to think about solving these kinds of problems without the aid of a PC .


http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/Items.asp?sub=yes&SectionID=4&CatID=1

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/Items.asp?sub=yes&SectionID=4&CatID=2

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/Items.asp?sub=yes&SectionID=4&CatID=3

[Venti]