Job Discussion Forums

[si_in_edinburgh]

Hello,
My name is Simon, I am currently looking at all of the EFL centres in Hanoi with the hope of working out there is summer.
As I am sure anybody who has been in postion will agree, there seems to be an absolute mountain of schools out there.
I have already worked for Apollo, which I thought was an ok school, but I am not greatly keen to go back there. I found the school very disorganised and often hard to get anything done as nobody knew what was going on.
I am therefore looking at different schools in Hanoi, however, unsure where to start. I have heard very good things about Language Link and this seems to be confirmed by most people I speak to, however, I was wonderiing f anybody has any recomendations or advice about other schools in Hanoi.
Thanks very much,
Simon

[kparsons]

Things have changed a bit at Apollo since this summer. I think you'll find it to be much better organized, less frustrating -- more enjoyable on the whole. I know many people were quite discontent w/the school earlier this year, but since then, there's been a reshuffling of the administration and a whole new structure put in place. At this point, I think they're really trying to think about the teachers: they've instituted a pay increase, created incentives for teachers to bring in other teachers, have semi-weekly meetings and semi-weekly trainings.... It seems like we're all much happier, if one is to judge by the grumbling in the teacher's room factor: instead of griping about administration, hours, and pay, people now whine about the students, etc. I guess I'm just saying I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

[BedTiger]

I think this depends on what you are looking. Apollo and the other big chain schools are just ESl factories where teaching and learning are secondary to making money and this is the major ideal when working there. Granted Apollo and Language Link are good places to start, but most good teachers will quickly move on to much better pastures, better pay and better hours. There are lots of schools in Hanoi but being here and contacts is the best way to find them. International schools and some private schools are the way to go here if teaching is actually a consideration.

Check out

www.hanoiesl.com

[Gordon]

[lizarddoctor]

[Gordon]

[lexpat]

[si_in_edinburgh]

hanoiesl looks like a great website, thanks very much for that link, however, didn't really want this forum to be a discussion whether a website works or not, but appreciate you taking the time to reply all the same.
I am definatly hoping to work at one of the smaller, more personal language centres this summer, as agree with the point that Apollo and Language Link are basicaly machines. If anyone has any advice with regard to those sorts of schools that would be great.
Thanks

[deessell2]

As an ex-employee of Language Link, I would hardly class them as a factory-type school. I have already posted a lengthy post on this site about working at Language Link. It was an excellent place to work in terms of support, resources, professional development and comradery.

[borg]

During my time in Hanoi I worked for RMIT University and Language Link. Language Link were great to work for and paid near the top of the scale for Hanoi. Exactly where are the "better pastures" in Hanoi, BedTiger? RMIT pay is a little higher than LL but the working conditions are very different and you might get more hours at LL. I recommend LL - the teachers were pretty happy with their lot when I was there.

[BedTiger]

Better pastures are International schools and that...."My friend is looking is for someone...". The best jobs in Hanoi are the ones you don't hear about ..meaning contacts is the king here. Granted I do hear LL is a good school and the staff is quite content and Apollo is just a disorganized place for clean cut back packers. Once you are here for a while and if you are a decent teacher many schools will contact you ! Not all of them will be great and working for Vietnamese can be trying at times...but the 2000$ a month for 3-4 teaching hours a day (plus other duties natrually) is out there...once you know where.

[ba_miller]

I�ve been reading comments about Apollo which have been going on for some time now, and have decided to put in my two bits.

Apollo is a member of International House. What seems odd to me is that this has not been mentioned in previous comments about Apollo. I started working for Apollo a couple of months ago, and decided to take the job precisely because I prefer to work for IH rather than other language schools. There are 2 reasons for this:

� IH emphasis on teacher development. I agree that a good salary is important, but I�ve worked for other schools and know that the working conditions and morale are often very closely related to in-house teacher training and development. Where this is absent, morale is often very low. For this reason, working for an IH school can be very exciting.
� The second reason is related to this � for me it is quite important to have the training, and to be able to put this on my CV. I know for a fact that having IH experience will help me get better jobs in the future, and the in-house transfer system makes it easier to get good jobs around the world. In any case, the salary here is very competitive, and the cost of living in Hanoi is very low, so I am actually saving money, in addition to eating out every day and doing more shopping than I was ever able to do in Europe.

Having said that, the school here in Hanoi is not one of the best IH schools, but neither is it one of the worst. People here tell me that there have been problems in the past with management (what school hasn�t), but that we have recently brought in several Delta trained managers, and that the situation seems to be improving. We do have weekly training sessions for GE/YL and Business English, and we are now having more regular teacher observations - so it would appear that things are looking up.

Also, I�ve seen some comments about taxes and visa problems. I have had absolutely no problems � most of us pay 10%, but we have a clear handout explaining the tax system here. Teachers pay more than that if they make over a certain amount (usually only the top management) or if they work in Vietnam under 6 months. There doesn�t seem to be much mystery about it. And like all other IH schools, Apollo has very good support staff who took care of work permits etc., once I had the copies of my credentials certified at the consulate here in Hanoi. And the police clearance was no problem either, I just requested one on the internet and had it certified at the consulate as well.

Anyway, I am really enjoying my stay here, the Vietnamese staff are friendly and very helpful, the students have a good sense of humor and are very hard-working, the city is enchanting and the food and shopping is out of this world! And a rather large percentage of the teachers here came for the same reasons I did. So as a whole, we are teachers who take our work seriously and are interested in self-improvement. Plus, I�m one of those people who believe that life is what you make it, I believe strongly in the IH culture, and plan to live that as fully as possible.

[BedTiger]

Did you even read these ?

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=41712

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=41283


The whole IH is nothing more than a marketing tool. A real school would allow teachers to honestly grade and review students. This means passing or failing students as their level allows, something management at Apollo will not allow. Also having 14-17 classes a week does not allow a teacher to find out the individuals strengths and weaknesses and focus on this accordingly. I have heard that conditions at Apollo have been improved since the mass purges of the summer, but their reputation has been significantly damaged in the eyes of many Vietnamese and it will take a long time to fix this.

[si_in_edinburgh]

Thank you to all the posts so far, I have really appreciated it.

It was a good point to make that Apollo is a member of the IH chain, this is what initially attracted me to the school. However, having worked at IH Budapest I found the difference in school organisation considerbale, and the IH label seemed to mean far less in Hanoi than it did in Budapest. That being said, I am sure that the new team at Apollo have changed a fair lot, and some of the management team who I knew to be staying on at the end of last summer were genuinely swtiched on.
Well I'm off to try and find Bed Tiger's "better pastures", but do please keep the comments coming in if there is anything more to add, as I am hoping to make a return to Hanoi this may.

Thanks again

[BedTiger]

Quote:

Well I'm off to try and find Bed Tiger's "better pastures", but do please keep the comments coming in if there is anything more to add, as I am hoping to make a return to Hanoi this may.

One way to find the better pastures is making contacts. Here in Vietnam contacts is king..and even though it is important in other countries, it is the single biggest factor for improving your life here. My last 2 jobs were because of contacts whom I had met several months ago..and they contacted me. Also you will have to do your time at an language mill..like Apollo and start at the bottom, working your way up. The better jobs are out there but they are not advertised on boards like this...its not the Vietnamese way really...my current position was negotiated over beer and hotpot after I was contacted by someone I met in a coffee shop several months ago.