Job Discussion Forums

[Pikgitina]

I have been following the discussion on the Jubail Industrial Academy with some interest.

I would like to know from the posters who posted against this institution if KSA is truly all bad (not saying that this is what you implied at any point). I have done a bit of time there - and yes, my job was nasty - but I liked the students and had a good time in the country (travelled around quite a bit and met great Saudis). I am thinking of returning, but really feel like there is nowhere good to go after reading what is being said about what were, at some point, for me at least, the better institutions in the Kingdom. Is KFUPM the safest bet then?

So, the posters mentioned above, have you managed to find "proper" teaching jobs, because I would love to know where those are? I'm not asking for you to reveal yourselves by saying where you work of course - just some info. Basically, how good can it get in KSA - in your opinions? And I know it depends on what I like, etc. General information would be great. I suppose you can call it a kind of a checklist - that's what I want. Other posters welcome, too, of course.

[Van Norden]

It can be very good here for your finances and for general comfort and ease of life. I do hate the place for all the restrictions but I also love it. If not for Uncle Saud I shudder to think what I'd be doing now. I thank him for this.

My job isn't a "proper" one so I can't help you there. The nasty jobs often pay better so if you really want money and you don't care about teaching this is the way to go. Not for the teachy-feely though.

[SCHUBERT]

What recent JIA posts were railing against was not KSA per se but against the outfit itself / and the dimwits who pass themselves off for something they patently are not. Strenuous denials of same drew fire as they should. And now we learn that JIA is unable to pay its teachers until 2007. So that explains itself. Thank heaven for sites such as this to save one the trouble of finding out the hard way.

I suppose a 'proper' job will have a modicum of respect for the teacher and this will be apparent in its pay / accommodation package (unlike the aforementioned). The majority of teachers i know are here to save money. Ther will be other reasons of course - JOB says - 'it is better to live in a desert land than with a loud and arrogant woman ' ( or whatever youre havin yourself)

There is also the 'ease of life' pointed out by Van Norden - A 'bukra Inshallah' attitude in a permanent twylight zone can be seductive .. depending on your make-up of course.

A 'proper' job would entail compliant / motivated students; excellent salary / accommodation; supportive management and a few flites home each year. I'm still looking

You appear to have enjoyed your previous stint in Saudi and have a laid-back attitude. Why not return. Just steer clear of them there cowboys

[robertinarabia]

Listen, never be put off by Jack the Lad outfits like Jubail Industrial Academy because every country in the world has them. Saudi Arabia has its fair share of shysters but they dominate a certain section of the market, even here some provide a good chance to get serious experience in the Kingdom- a way to get your foot in the door that will allow you to build up wider contacts once inside Saudi- bearing in mind that the best jobs here are not even advertised. Their main drawbacks are things like split shifts, large classes and poor resources. Accomodation issues might also be a concern- the salary range will be between 6,000-8,000 on the whole and is an obvious, but not the only benchmark. Also, they may only be able to provide a business visitors' visa rather than a work permit ( an iqama). What about the number of class contact hours and are there, like at JIA, any abusive clauses to review? These are a few of the selection criteria I would think about before accepting a post. Some will pay you, even if you don't work for months on end- others will cut you loose and leave you to rot. The worst will pit teachers against each other like dogs fighting for a few scraps of work. You have to think about it carefully. Their holidays will also be lousy by the way.
Saudi Arabia is a good country to work, its stress free, laid back and people are overwhelmingly respectful though reserved, you certainly don't encounter animosity when walking down the street for example, though I have heard that it can happen, I stress can, not bound to.
Now for the better deals. I would say the minimum a DELTA qualified instructor should work for is 10,000 riyals- that's in your pocket. Realistically in Saudi- 5 class contact hours per day is ok, but the better deals limit it to about 4. Here's my choice then assuming you have a DELTA and a few years experience.
1) KFUPM 2) JIC 3) YIC. Possibly a rising star is PMU in Khobar, but we'll have to see. Certainly the real lousy deals would include EF, JIA, EC, IH, Direct English and WSI. Beware of private recruiters like Al Falak- if you work for KFUPM or JIC- then do so as a direct hire. BAE is a wild goose chase for anyone who doesn't have connections- which basically means pals already there. Other more realistic possibilities include SWCC- (the water company) and military contracts including the Saudi Navy. KFUPM AND JIC are not without their own issues and their starting salaries for DELTA qualified personnel are around 10,000, 12800 for an MA holder at JIC. I would say that if you can't save at least 9,000 riyals a month in Saudi and you have a DELTA and proven experience then you are doing something horribly wrong!

[Pikgitina]

Thanks for the info guys - exactly what I wanted - very helpful indeed!

[scot47]

Life is easier in Saudi Arabia after you accept that you are an exile. You will not return to East Cheam or Des Moines. Accept that after Saudi you will be in some other exotic place. Forget being an 'expatriate' who will return to your native place one day with stacks of boodle.

For some the 'exotic place' after Saudi is Sri Lanka or Romania or Thailand. Where will yours be ?

[Stephen Jones]

Government jobs are OK as long as you have a few years experience; if not you will be too low down on the salary scale.

If companies hire direct they often can be OK as salaries in the range of 12,000 - 14,000 are quite common. The problems are often that they don't advertise and secondly that, being state run industries, there is a load of bureaucracy. Sabic companies have been told to use the parent company's training and most of that is contracted out, often to not very reputable contractors but companies still do hire direct; SWICC (the Saline Water company at Jubail) was desperately short only a few months ago. Dallah company, which has various contracts including the airport contract also hires.

You would do well to send your resume around to various places; SWICC, Prince Sultan Medical College at KFMCC are two that stand out, and there are the schools at the military complex in Hafr al-baten and EFL at the military hospital in Taif. You may learn of others (on occasion Saudi universities and teacher training colleges will actually pay western rates for western expats, so some of those are worth looking into), but remember that the good small gigs often get their positions passed around by word of mouth.

Aramco jobs, which were the cream fifteen years ago, now all go through contractors (except possibly for some at branch locations such as Ras-Al-Tanura). The problem there is that the contractors are obliged to pay a certain salary, and so attempt to make their profits by squeezing people into unsatisfactory accommodation, so you need to check out the contractors. Al-Falak does Aramco contracts, and although they provide no frills, their accommodation is OK.

[robertinarabia]

SABIC, that's IH, they land grabbed it years ago, very nasty business all around so they say. Dirty tricks - blah blah blah, underhand schemes, bully boy tactics- blah blah blah. Only the EC bravely holds out against the IH hordes: IH watches, waits and slowly draws its plans against us. SABIC, no, you don't want to go there. It's a dark dark place now, where the shadows lie.

[SCHUBERT]

.. the shadows lie .. Gasp ..

[Stephen Jones]