| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
pondwalden66
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: Still lying at ECC |
 |
|
I see ECC is claiming that their teachers work only 29.5 hours in comparison to other schools where you work more for the same salary.
Ha! Ha! As long as you don`t mind working about 5 hours a week for free, I guess that`s accurate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
inkansai
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 5 hours is a bit steep. I'd say 2.5 hours for free. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
callmesim
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 279
Location: London, UK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How are you managing to work an extra 5 hours for free?? What are you doing?
At most, I'd say I work an extra 30 minutes a week. And that's just because I fart about in between lessons anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Firestarter
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 55
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have two days where I come about 25 minutes early to prepare, but otherwise I've got no real need to be early. Review lesson plans on the train and do admin stuff between classes.
Some people do complain about this sort of thing a bit, but really, if anyone is halfway serious about their job/career putting some of your free time into it is par for the course. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
c-way
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| You mean you're not being compensated from the moment you contemplate work to the moment you walk out the door. The nerve. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
Doesn't sound too bad, working 29.5 hours plus 5 hours for a total of 34.5 hours per week (less than 7 hours a day).
When I worked at GEOS a few years back I was putting in 8 or 9 unpaid extra hours per week on top of a base workload of 45 hours. That works out to about 20 hours (or 3 ECC work days) per week more.
When ECC starts making its teachers do that, you can complain. Until then, give us a break. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
callmesim
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 279
Location: London, UK
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It'll be interesting to see if the OP replies or if their first post will be their last.
If anyone is putting in 5 hours of unpaid overtime with ECC, either they're a very slow worker or they're not the most creative of teachers. The only lessons that require preparation are kids classes and group lessons and if you've been with ECC for more than 3 months and still haven't been able to prepare kids classes in the 15 [b]paid[/p] minutes provided then I'm afraid the problem's with the teacher, not the company.
As for group lessons, you know that involves unpaid preparation time before you agree to teach them. And even then, we're talking an extra 5-15 minutes a week, tops.
ECC isn't the best company in the world but for someone to slag it off on something that is an out and out lie is ridiculous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| callmesim wrote: |
| As for group lessons, you know that involves unpaid preparation time before you agree to teach them. And even then, we're talking an extra 5-15 minutes a week, tops. |
Of course you know that you should be paid extra for any extra time you work that's not specified in your contract. That includes even an extra 5-15 minutes a week. If ECC isn't paying you for it, you're being cheated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
callmesim
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 279
Location: London, UK
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yamanote senbei wrote: |
| Of course you know that you should be paid extra for any extra time you work that's not specified in your contract. That includes even an extra 5-15 minutes a week. If ECC isn't paying you for it, you're being cheated. |
I don't know if you work for ECC or not but I'll say it again -
| Quote: |
| As for group lessons, you know that involves unpaid preparation time before you agree to teach them. And even then, we're talking an extra 5-15 minutes a week, tops. |
So if the idea of putting in a extra few minutes a week makes you physically ill, then you don't have sign up to do the lessons. It's that simple. Some of us don't mind putting in the extra few minutes.
While I hate being screwed over by companies, if they're up front with the downsides and you're fully aware of the deal before you agree to undertake anything, then you don't really have much excuse to complain.
"If you don't mind putting in an extra 5-15 minutes a week, then you can request to teach group lessons. But if you don't want to, that's fine. Just let us know."
You can't get more up-front than that?
If you want to be a fair-pay crusader then I'd suggest helping the Japanese staff with their work conditions first. The hours, pay and conditions they work under really put whinging about 15 minutes of pay into perspective. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| callmesim wrote: |
| "If you don't mind putting in an extra 5-15 minutes a week, then you can request to teach group lessons. But if you don't want to, that's fine. Just let us know." |
Can you imagine teachers saying:
"I want to be late or leave early from work 5-15 minutes a week (all while being paid my usual salary) how do I request this? But if you mind, that's fine. Just let me know."
| callmesim wrote: |
| If you want to be a fair-pay crusader then I'd suggest helping the Japanese staff with their work conditions first. The hours, pay and conditions they work under really put whinging about 15 minutes of pay into perspective. |
If Japanese ECC staff had the English abilities and the sense to post here, I'd more more than happy to give them advice on how to collect their unpaid salary and unpaid overtime. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
callmesim
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 279
Location: London, UK
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yamanote senbei wrote: |
Can you imagine teachers saying:
"I want to be late or leave early from work 5-15 minutes a week (all while being paid my usual salary) how do I request this? But if you mind, that's fine. Just let me know."
|
That's a pretty weak analogy.
Mine is the company saying if you want to teach these lessons, this is the downside. Take it or leave it.
As for yours, the point in moot. It's made clear from the beginning that lateness is not tolerated in a Japanese company and there is little flexibility. If people don't know this before they take the job then they obviously haven't done their research.
In a perfect world we'd be paid for every bit of work we do but that's just not going to happen. In the case of the group classes, if people don't want to do it, then don't, it's that simple.
Some teachers turn up 30 minutes early to prepare their kids classes because they want to make sure they're 150% prepared. THAT IS THEIR CHOICE! You don't need to do this. When you start the job, you do but that's because everything's new but after a few months, 5 minutes is really all you need.
Which I guess means everything could work in reverse. If you're going to start minute-counting for over-time, why not do it from the other end and calculate all the minutes teachers waste talking and relaxing in the 10 minutes between each lesson which is paid!? I can tell you now that adds up to more than 15 minutes a week!
I am not a company lacky, far from it, but I get really fed up with the "Oooo, I'm such a victim and am being exploited" attitude for the most ridiculous of things. It gives unions a bad name when they have so many good things to offer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, with the way the Eikaiwa market is heading I don't think you can reasonably complain about working a few minutes extra.
Its not like 20 (or even 5 - 10) years ago when it was more of a teacher's market. It is now decidedly an employer's market and there are a lot more pressing things to be worried about.
I mean, the overall market for English lessons is in decline. When the big schools opened in the early 70s there were plenty of baby boomers in high school or university to teach. Now there are way fewer student-age people around and the number of salarymen and housewives willing to fork over a huge amount to study a language they don't need is pretty finite. Plus people just don't have much disposable income.
So you've got a shrinking market, already overcrowded by a bunch of English schools that are already charging way too much for their services. Even the big ones like NOVA are losing money hand over fist. They over-expanded a few years ago and pretty much the only way they can save their companies is to downsize, close schools and hire fewer teachers. The other option is to pay teachers less (something like the peanuts Gaba is offering) and cut benefits in order to reduce costs.
Anyway you look at it, Eikaiwa teachers are going to get screwed over big time, probably a lot are going to lose their jobs in coming years and those that keep them are going to be making way less....and you are worried about working a few minutes extra???!?!?!?! Give me a break. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After an investigation just last year McDonalds workers in Japan received payment for all the overtime they worked. A lot of it was for just what's happening now at ECC, a few minutes here a few minutes there.
http://www.jil.go.jp/foreign/emm/bi/63.htm
| Quote: |
-A Labor Union Established in McDonald's Japan-
Shop managers and other workers of McDonald's Co. Japan have
established a McDonald's Co. Japan labor union. Members of the new union
are 200 workers, including part-time workers, in Aichi and five other
prefectures. This was the first time for a leading fast food hamburger
restaurant to form a labor union.
In recent years, a spate of problems involving labor issues have
occurred at the company; last year, it admitted that it had failed
to pay a total of 2.2 billion yen of overtime in the past, and a shop
manager filed a lawsuit against the firm, calling for the payment of
unpaid wages for overtime. Commenting on the establishment of the
union, the company said that it intended to deal with the union in
good faith, the formation of a labor union being the right of workers.
In April, in the meantime, the company announced a revision of its
employment regulations and the abolishment of the mandatory retirement
system.
(Nikkei Sangyo Shimbun, May) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
callmesim
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 279
Location: London, UK
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
2.2 billion yen for the odd 5 minutes here and there? I didn't see that written in the article. I just saw "unpaid overtime". And that could be anything up to hours. Hours I have issue with so you won't see be disagreeing there.
But like I said, if you count the minutes we work outside of shift-time, will you also count the minutes we don't work during the shift? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
