Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

The other day my student told me that it was OK for men to smoke and drink, but not for women. It's OK for them to get a job, so long as they keep the house clean. I laughed, and said something resembling agreement.

A little further back, my student explained that if you commit suicide, you go to hell - because "God will be angry". Again, I smiled and said something blandly positive.

Black people, apparently, are "smelly" (at which I nodded supportingly but trying not to express any kind of "agreement")

Gay doctors have their work cut out, "curing gay people"...

I'm not trying to cast moral judgement over my students here - different cultures have different values. But if I had been at the pub listening to the above sh*t, I doubt I would have tolerated it for one second. And yet in the class I happily listen to (and am amused by) some of the most majestic triumphs against political correctness there are.

Something must happen, as soon as I walk in the class I suddenly become super-tolerant of opposing views and opinions.

Or maybe that's not it - maybe I just don't see my students as complete human beings. I don't treat their views and opinions as actual views and opinions, they are just bundles of vocalised lexis and grammar.

Actually, I think I'd prefer to keep it that way...

[dyak]

I know what you mean, I think it's the 'what they're saying is completely out-dated/old-fashioned/crude/absurd but at least they're using English' thing; which somehow softens the incredulity of it.

I just think, 'Man, they put a lot of effort into expressing that absurd opinion.'

But I guess we should correct grammar not opinions.

[Gordon]

I take a different approach. If a student gives me a really intolerant statement, I ask them why they think that. I try to get students to think about their ideas and thoughts and if possible, to back up or defend their beliefs. I don't tell them they're wrong, but I want students to think independently.

[Capergirl]

My conversation classes are really interesting. The students get to choose any "hot topic" they want to discuss, and except for a few ground rules, it is a "no holds barred" discussion. These can be very enlightening classes...especially for the Canadian teacher.

Our topic this week was divorce, although that soon morphed into a debate about gender roles. Throughout this class, I found myself thinking that I just don't give Western men enough credit.

I think that we have to give our students a much bigger "grain of salt" than we would normally give people in other situations. I probably couldn't be friends with the vast majority of my students outside of the classroom and it is precisely because of this stark contrast in views. People tend to gravitate towards people who are like-minded and that is certainly true for me (why else would I be here? ). Nonetheless, it is a great experience to hear different opinions and life experiences. It does make things interesting.

[Gordon]

[Wolf]

[leeroy]

Mmm, I do remember one moment which almost summoned my rage...

I had printed off and laminated some pages from the Yahoo! personals (Unknown to the randomly picked lonely twentysomethings in Miami ). The students, among other things, had to choose which girl would be the best for me.

One pair were muttering and conspiring, and then began..

"Teacher. We find very nice girl for you. She young, Christian, no want babies, rich, not fat. Do you want see her?"

They then showed me the page they were referring to, with a photo of an (attractive) african-american girl. Instantly, the class burst out laughing - (presumably expecting me to mock vomiting, and to join in laughing and say "Oh my God! A black girl! How disgusting! You got me there guys!")

Luckily, I did not fall into a pit of rage - though it was a close one. (I had a black girlfriend back in England). As Wolf recommends, I calmly explained that not all cultures would appreciate the humour. It was probably lost on them.. never mind.

[struelle]

[denise]

I have been very careful in my classes recently not to tell my students what I think about whatever political/social issue we're discussing--except when I had to give them a sample of an opinion paper that I wrote--then they had to sit through a couple of pages of me going on and on... (but it was only to give them an example of how to defend an opinion). Instead, I just ask them to explain why, and to try to imagine the opposite side. Sometimes I end up just telling them the opposite side, but I (hopefully...) do so without implying any wrong or right (even if the students are obviously flagrantly WRONG!).

d

[Capergirl]

Sounds a lot like me, Denise. I often play the "devil's advocate" in conversation classes because the discussions have a tendency to get very one-sided. I don't give my personal opinions (although they ask) because I am not there to debate with them - I am there to get them to practice their English.

[Jess_Laoshi]

When my Chinese students said things like that, I'd challenge them. When one of my better students started going off on the Japanese one day, I asked him if he'd ever met any Japanese people. Of course he hadn't. I asked him if he realized that Japanese people his age were not even born yet when the war took place, and if he wanted to blame them for something they had no part in. Eventually, after some discussion, he actually thanked me for making him look at it another way. He said he'd changed his mind, he hates Japan as a nation, but not the Japanese people, the majority of whom are innocent. I also had another student who made some remarks to me along the lines of "teacher, you must hate black people, I also hate them." When I told him I didn't hate black people, that I believed there are bad people of all types, and those are the people I hate, he got embarassed. "You're right, of course," he said, "forgive me."

I don't know about other places, but Chinese students by and large have had absolutely no experience with people who aren't Chinese. Their views can be very narrowminded, but I've found they've mostly just never really thought about it. Their views are only what they think they're supposed to believe. I'm not trying to force them all to think my way, but its important to me that they realize there are other ways of looking at things. I've found that my students are not bigots at heart, they just aren't used to thinking for themselves.

[Wolf]

[arioch36]

[jud]

Italians can be incredibly racist, surprising (or maybe not) coming from a nation of emigrants.

I can't tell you how many times in a first lesson talking about likes and dislikes students tell me that they dislike people of Arab descent.

When I first started teaching, I would respond to these kinds of comments by asking Why is that, have you had bad experiences, etc. and then leave it be.

Now I'm a bit less tolerant. Many people learning English now are learning for business or travel -related reasons. A big part of any language is cultural-appropriacy. I would never kick off a discussion in Italy saying that I dislike the Pope. And Americans and the British (if I may), as racist as many are or may be, are a lot more careful about these statements.

Obviously, in a conversation class, I'm happy to play devil's advocate and can put in my two cents in the context of dialogue. I have no intention of converting anyone, but, as other posters have said, often students don't realize the import of what they say. At least I'd like to hope so.

[dreadnought]