Job Discussion Forums

Baba Alex · Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 2411

Can I just say that I don't have a problem with any kind of religious symbolism per se, my whole objection is simply the OPs refusal to try to understand the mean of Secularism, something I think is quite nice actually.

although my knickers ain't twisted.

Yaramazcim, appriciate your point, what do you Female Turkish friends think of the whole affair?

Rola · Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 5 Location: London

Hi people

, ok ok ok thank you all for all your passionate input... i apprecuate it really even if i disagree with some of it to each her/his own... that's cool with me... feel what you want to feel... say what you want to say... and i read it all. I am who i am and i choose what i choose... whether you think its dumb or not this choice that i have made has not hurt me... it has challenged me but in the end it has made me stronger... and this is my way of life and i am entitled to it... and i am entitled to feel the way i feel when people judge me for my choices. As i said before i accept Turkey law and perhaps with some more education i can accept it even more... but as an individual i feel that my choice to cover is not harmless to anyone including myself... based on everyone's opinions, education, experience, knowledge, past, history, upbringing and so on everyone's point of view varies... its not a matter of right and wrong here... cause i am going to believe i am right and someone with a different point of view is going to believe she/he is right... its a matter of not judging each other... like i said before i don't judge any ones choice or action unless someone is being hurt... many of you said many things and ok that is your opinion and you are entitled to it... i am me and regardless of other people you have encountered that wear the hijab (in any way, shape or form) you can't judge me based on them... just like i don't judge every girl that chooses to die her hair blonde the same... people make choices and for their own reasons... so all i mean is respect others and don't call them names, and tell them to stop doing what they believe in... that's not nice... in the end the real answer is between you and yourself. Are you happy with the choices you make? Did it make life easier or harder in the long run? Did your choice hurt anyone? and so on and so forth??? If the answers are positive then why not... why not... yes religion is a believe system and a way of life so this comes out in your actions and the way i choose to dress and act towards others are my actions... and this choice in the long run is good for me... but hey you be you and let me be me. Peace man, peace... relax just relax.

dagi · Joined: 01 Jan 2004 Posts: 425

[quote]I do not wear the full jilbab, but some day i may if i feel i want to.[/quote]
If that is the case you might want to consider Saudi Arabia.

Anyway, I can understand people who don't want covered women in schools. If I had kids in a school and they had a living tent for teacher I'd go bonkers, too. Simply because that is not the kind of role model I want my children to be exposed to.
Totally agree with Ollie, covering up is dumb. I hope one day those women will understand that is is not their choice, it's a simple sign of oppression. Oppression of the female identity, of being allowed to be female. The only sign it gives is that being a woman is bad and that's why they should cover up.
Hell, men are not required to cover up so why should women?

Oh, and only one other poster mentioned it, this post sounds like a troll. Couldn't agree more. But keep on going, it's very entertaining.

runeman · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 124

"To be yourself in a world that is doing its best, day and night to make you like everybody else - is to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." - e.e. cummings

lovelace · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 190

Look, maybe there's a handbook for this kind of thing, but I can't find it - please, what the hell is a troll??

Rola · Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 5 Location: London

I can go on and on explaining things to you but you'll never understand (some of you)... that's ok there will come a day when you will understand everything... i will see you then... but for now i will let you be the way you are and do what you want and say what you want... so you are entertained by a woman seeking some information and expressing her emotions about being judged for choosing to dress a certain way that does not harm anyone. And for all you ignorant people out there maybe you need step out into the world and see that a hijab is not necessarly dressed all in black like a tent.... it can actually be very modern... and i myself don't wear the tent like dress you describe... and for your information a man has to cover also... not as much due to the fact that a female body and hair etc. tend to be more attractive then some male parts... but a man also cannot wear tight clothes, and he must cover from elbow to knee... and there are some other restrictions also... and a woman in Islam is truly valued for her opinion and mind and not for the size of her body and breast and the looks of her hair... give me a break Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and 3 our of every 4 reverts (yes i said reverts) are women, why? because if you educate yourself Islam is a very peaceful and fullfilling religion especially for women, we almost have more rights than a man Smile

I have many many friends who reverted... whom are white, chinese, protoguese and you name it... why don't you get yourself an education and read some things before you make assumptions... i did not come onto this forum to make enemies but you guys got pretty harsh with so here it is... most of you seem like lost souls and your try to find yourselves by going overseas and teaching... good for you... was this entertaining enough for you. There is much more i can say but you are not worth the time... it seems to me like you are set in your own mind set... good luck to all of you and may you all find your way... thanks to all of you and sorry if i ofended anyone but i am not going to sit around and take all this descrimination... people calling my choices dumb and tell me to be a certain way... i did not come on this forum to get religious advice and why would i ask you guys... so empty those of that make those stupid comments seem... go read, go learn... i thought since you are all open minded enough to move overseas to teach you can help me understand some things... i feel sorry for some of your students... for some of you its not open mindedness its empty mindedness... wow this is 2006 and people still don't understand... TOLERATION people... thanks again and good bye... peace and try to relax and educate yourselves. PEACE!

calsimsek · Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 775 Location: Ist Turkey

O.K up to the last few posts I tried not to get to invloved, but come on Rola you have to understand that this is not home.

You don't come from a history in which things like the printing press, guns, and steam power were outlawed for being unIslamic. You don't live in a country that watched Iran turn itself inside out. You say that everyone should live and let live. Well your right and I wish that alot more covered people thought the way you do.

The reality of Turkey is different, even thou Turkey played no role in the Iraq war. Two bombs went off in this city and killed more than 20.

So before you judge this country and its laws, please understand that here we live. All of us at some time have been looked at. Some of us have even been called GAVUR.....

Sheikh Inal Ovar · Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 1208 Location: Melo Drama School

Rola, you might find helpful this advice from "Girls Stepping into the World" -

Otterman Ollie · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:47 am Post subject:

Oh Rola,you poor misguided soul.The fact that you are living in a country like Canada where demoracy and freedom of speech are taken for granted ,are you aware how fortunate you are ? Your choice of dress is a symbol of oppression and the average female in Turkey would die first if they were FORCED to wear it .
By your very assocation with this foul garment you are unwittingly but knowingly deciding the fate of women all over the world .Its has nothing to do with faith or religion ,but it is simply about mens power over women,their inability to be what they are ,female,femine to be admired .When you wear that piece of cloth you kill that under the mistaken belief that men will not pester you,yet your very appearance opens you to scorn and ridicule ,which is the more preferable ?In countries where this garb is the norm women have less status than cattle or dogs ,if you don't beleive that I suggest you go and live there ,you may even be allowed to teach there ,but somehow that would empower you ,so seems highly unlikely .

tekirdag · Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 505

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Baba Alex · Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 2411

I don't think I'd like my child (if there was one) to be taught by Rola. Not because of the scarf, but because she seems unable to develop any kind of coherent idea, or carry out a discussion.

Revert? It's that kind of bullshit that enforces the need for secularism.

I know some Turkish women who have not visited some Mosques because they've been asked to cover up. Seems that Islam also has it's rules on how you can dress in official buildings.

I would like to distance myself from some of the Islamaphobic statements made during this discussion. I do believe that Rola should be allowed to wear her scarf if she wants, I also wear a scarf sometimes, just as long as she respects the foundations of secularism, and atheism as she would wish her own belief systems to be respected.

Laura777 · Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 101 Location: Istanbul Turkey

Hi... This is my 3rd year in Turkey. Istanbul. I am a Muslim. I converted in the states.

The law in this country regarding covering up is: no you cannot do it, in the schools or most work places unless they allow it.

This country is ruled by secular law. This is not a religious country albiet it is a country which is Muslim by nature. However there are parties political, which are very Islamic. Nothing wrong with it.

I had to respond, and don't have time for a long or very well worded response.

I say do what you want regarding your covering its YOUR choice. That is our freedom for all of us whether we cover or not. Islamic or not...

Later...

misterkodak · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:44 am Post subject:

I have to side with the Otterman on this issue. I have met many wonderful female observant muslims who don't wear the hijab. Maybe Rola doesn't wear it as a symbol of opression but most people tend to see it as oppressive or a symbol of fundamentalism. I personally have my own private issues with Islam (let me see.. Jesus is a prophet in Islam.. but Jesus is Jewish.. Islam and Jews aren't compatible. Am I missing something here?) and headscarves/Black moving objects.
I can agree to disagree. What I don't respect is the disrespect most Muslims show towards other religions. I have been called Gavur before. I have been given many copies of various Said Nursi tracts. They make nice kindling in the coal stove. There seems to be a distinct double standard. What would happen if I passed out copies of the Bhaggavad Ghida or the KJV Bible to my students? It's as if they want tolerance for their intolerance.
The classroom isn't the place for this kind of thing. I wouldn't want my kids to have a headscarved teacher or a bible-thumping denim skirt wearing long haired pentecostal teacher either.