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ddeubel
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 39
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 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: English Speakers (in Japan) are from Mars |
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Makihara has written before about the problems with English Language instruction in the Far East. Here is is again, saying in effect that many in Japan (and I guess Korea too , not so much China), believe that English isn't really really necessary and is a cultural weight , a "foreigness" that many or most in those cultures don't weigh kindly.
Do you think this will change with the forthcoming generations? The insularity and in general, the failure of English to penetrate the culture. One wonders if things like having a new secretary general of the U.N. that is Korean and speaks fluent English will help?
DD
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Meanwhile: English speakers are from Mars
Kumiko Makihara Published: December 6, 2006
TOKYO: Despite some predictions that Chinese will become the next worldwide lingua franca, the acceptance of English as the global language, spurred by the spread of the Internet, is here to stay. Fluent English is increasingly expected, rather than respected, in the business community.
Considering Japan's economic prowess, and how many Japanese travel and work overseas, the country has a surprisingly low level of fluency in English. So rare is fluency here that my father was nicknamed "the alien" for speaking English and being Westernized. And this was in the 1990s, when he was the president of a major Japanese trading company where most of his business was conducted in English.
A growing divide between English speakers and non-English speakers doesn't bode well for a big economic power like Japan. Yet a government committee's proposal to introduce English into the elementary school curriculum has met surprising protest.
"Teaching English may be necessary in the global community, but as a Japanese, one must first be able to speak proper Japanese," declared Bunmei Ibuki, the education minister, upon his appointment in September.
Ibuki's remarks reflect a stubborn insular mentality still prevalent among Japan's elite. After all, Japan managed to become one of the world's largest economies without its people mastering much English. Foreign-language study doesn't need to be a high priority for children, they say.
The influential author and mathematician Masahiko Fujiwara even says that Japanese should be proud that their scores on the Toefl, the test that assesses English proficiency of non-native speakers, rank among the lowest in Asia. That is the result of the country never having been colonized nor forced to speak another language, Fujiwara writes in his best-selling book, "Kokka no Hinkaku" or dignity of a nation.
While Japan slowly debates the issue, its neighbors and rivals in Asia have taken the practical road and acquiesced to the English-speaking trend.
Like Japan, none of them have historical or cultural ties to the English language. China, South Korea, Taiwan and Thailand have all incorporated English into their elementary school curriculums.
Poor English skills didn't matter much for Japanese in the 70s and 80s when global customers clamored to do business with any Japanese company, says John Shook, an auto consultant based in Michigan. "The competition now faced by Japanese company A is not another Japanese company, but Chinese or Korean or American. The embarrassingly low level of English spoken by Japanese managers, while a mere embarrassment before, is now a major business liability," he says.
Opponents of introducing English into Japan's curriculum argue that children should spend those precious hours studying their own complex tongue: a difficult language with layers of honorifics and thousands of written characters that linguists lament young people are increasingly unable to master. But the government proposal only calls for one hour of English per week in the 5th and 6th grades, hardly enough time to confuse children linguistically or do damage to their Japanese. And that hour could go far in impressing upon children that there is a world beyond their borders accessible by language.
To be sure there are major hurdles to implementing English classes in schools here. Only about 4 percent of elementary school teachers are currently certified to teach English. And few can pronounce the language like a native speaker. But until training is complete, schools could use audio visual materials. Better to get an early start.
To forge ahead, Japanese students will also have to overcome their shyness in trying out new words.
In this extremely conformist society, even children are reluctant to stand out by speaking better or worse than their peers, so few students are eager to speak up in class. It doesn't help that English instruction in schools never encouraged speaking.
But any language student knows that on the road to fluency, it's no shame, no gain.
I take advantage of this cultural aversion to shame sometimes by speaking English to my son in public when he misbehaves, increasing my volume until he gets into line. It usually works.
My son doesn't want to stand out like an alien, after all. I myself would be happy to have him be from outer space in Japan, as long as he could communicate with the rest of the world. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: |
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You misinterpret some of this.
The previous administration (which changed hands only a few weeks ago) was on its way to putting a stronger foothold of English in the Japanese elementary schools. Enter PM Shinzo Abe and his cronies, and they have taken that away.
Do all Japanese feel this way? Certainly not.
Kumiko Makihara speaks a lot of truth in his article.
Where did you find it? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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I found it in the IHT, from a week or so ago. Snipped it out and it has been on my desk awhile. Saw it online so wanted some comment.
I don't know what I am actually "misinterpreting", I really didn't comment on anything. Just held out the idea of "English estrangement" if that is a good term, to be commented upon.
I know the English language is valued as a part of education. What I think the author is saying and I concur, is that English is not valued outside the context of school, diploma or even job. It is only a rubber stamp and not alive and a tool of other aspects of the culture (as for example in Europe, as a means of intercountry communication, business discourse, media etc....). I am just wondering if ever, this bubble might break in Japan and here to in Korea.
I was commented upon how often here, I get comments from people, wispered........foreigner, foreigner....... Happened yesterday about 10 times as I ran up the local mountain. I don't mean this in any bad way , it is not a cultural judgement. It is a cultural observation, how this mind set still exists, that sort of extreme notion of "the other." It is in all cultures but I think it hinders Japan in particular, when it comes to its development....
DD |
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sheeba
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Poor English skills didn't matter much for Japanese in the 70s and 80s when global customers clamored to do business with any Japanese company, says John Shook, an auto consultant based in Michigan. "The competition now faced by Japanese company A is not another Japanese company, but Chinese or Korean or American. The embarrassingly low level of English spoken by Japanese managers, while a mere embarrassment before, is now a major business liability," he says.
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I'd agree with John Shook and add that Business is one of the most important reasons for countries like Japan to value the importance of English language learning. But it seems that there is either an inability or a lack of inherent interest amongst the nationals to conform to this and actually learn the language. Who can blame them ? I can't really speak for Japan . I'm in China but I see here a very low level of English amonst citizens , students and business. One could argue that even if only 10 percent of the 1 . ? Billion here learn English to 'fluency' there will be an influx of competent SL speakers but will these really be capable of effective communications with the West in specific fields such as Engineering or IT? Their levels are very hard to define. From what I see I doubt it.
You might suggest that as foreigners we should tap into Chinese/Asian language learning but I fear that this phenomenom of talented foreign language learners(and they are around) are going to peak at the wrong moment in time . At least in China anyway .
quote - Despite some predictions that Chinese will become the next worldwide lingua franca - quote
I don't know who can seriously predict that . English is for so many reasons is here to stay for a long time yet and the Chinese Economy has a few stepping stones that may become evident in time . Lets not speak too soon. I think that the idea of a 'global English' makes more sense than anything else .
Just what reasons there are to learn English really determine the extent to which the nationals will follow suit. Even if that 10 per cent in China manage to overcome their difficulties(and believe me they have them) the propoganda tools that will be employed will be in their own language aiding the millions that require their first tongue for survival. So English is pretty much a waste of time except for a potential 10 percent that China rely on - at this point in time anyway.
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
I know the English language is valued as a part of education. What I think the author is saying and I concur, is that English is not valued outside the context of school, diploma or even job. It is only a rubber stamp and not alive and a tool of other aspects of the culture (as for example in Europe, as a means of intercountry communication, business discourse, media etc....). I am just wondering if ever, this bubble might break in Japan and here to in Korea. |
I like what you wrote. However, I think it's a lot more than a "bubble" to break as far as changing the Asian perception of or attitude towards the English language, even the world community for that matter. A bubble is relative easy to break. This problem is more like a concrete wall that is not going to come down anytime soon. These people really are not interested in communicating with the rest of the world for intrinsic reasons - the sure pleasure of discourse with foreigners.
Despite the fact that they are taught English since elementary school, you still cannot expect them to do anything else but laugh in your face if you need to speak with them (in English) in let's say the grocery store. We get the had up to mouth and laughing right at us in our face. This really bothers me, especially when it�s three or four of them standing around all doing this. I can understand that they don't speak English very well but the hand over the mouth and laughing at me when I need real help...  . It makes me want to avoid all types of communications with such people if I can help it.
I once demonstrated to my class what it feels like to have the same thing done to them when they speak their L1. It was a real eye opener for these students. They oftentimes think they are the center of the world and everyone else is the foreigner. Let them experience, if just for one minute, what it feels like for them to become the foreigner speaking a foreign language. They should experience this! |
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wildchild
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 519
Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Makihara said
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| I take advantage of this cultural aversion to shame sometimes by speaking English to my son in public when he misbehaves, increasing my volume until he gets into line. It usually works. [emphasis is mine] |
Wow! This is a great way to condition the kid to hate the L2 
Given that it already suffers nondominate status, it will now be associated to being punished, corrected, shamed and embarrased. Bravo Makihara! |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Definate misperceptions about speaking English in Japan. Of course, the often used approach to studying English as a dead language doesn't help (no speaking, beyond katakana pronunciation that is), nor does English usage by right wingers or Japanese with a misplaced sense of Japanese nationalism help either  (take a look at 'caster51' in JREF or 'Oscar' in Young Dudes Guide to Japan, they both have taken a shine to those boys in the black vans who 'love' our foreign presence in Japan ).
I always seem to meet three main types of English speakers in Japan; the hobbyists, the business people, and the 'required ' speakers. The first group can be annoying, usually labeled as eigo bandits, they turn up at your elbow at inopportune times trying to force their way into your conversations for 'English practice' (i.e. free lessons).
The 'required' speakers often dread studying it, and I can somewhat relate to that as when I took French lessons in high school, I didn7t really enjoy it. Nowadays, I regret that I have lost some of my French ability, and I see the real value in learning any language. Of course, you have different required types, students (from elementary to uni) and for business. Some business students dread it, as they feel thier 'uniqueness' slipping away.
Now the students who actually enjoy studying a language and appreciate the world it opens up, they are in a definate minority. But those are the ones you keep hoping you can motivate as students. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I once demonstrated to my class what it feels like to have the same thing done to them when they speak their L1. It was a real eye opener for these students. They oftentimes think they are the center of the world and everyone else is the foreigner. Let them experience, if just for one minute, what it feels like for them to become the foreigner speaking a foreign language. They should experience this! |
Sadly, any high school or junior high student who gets to go on an overseas trip (at least once for private HS kids) gets this. They come home raring to study more English, but sadly it fades in about 2 weeks. |
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zorro (2)
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Newcastle, England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| english language imperialism is an interesting phenomenon. |
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