Job Discussion Forums

[Plan B]

[sojourner]

Jammish,

You mentioned that with "a celta and lots of experience teaching adults" it is possible to teach EAP and make around 25 K RMB per month.

That sort of statement is misleading and only helps to perpetuate the myth that it is relatively "easy" to make "good money" in China. Bearing in mind that Cathy (the OP) probably is not even a graduate, one could imagine that she - and any other non-graduate - may come to the conclusion that to make "good money", one only needs to have completed a CELTA course and have had a couple of years (Oral English) teaching experience !

For those who may not be familiar with the term, I should point out that EAP stands for English for ACADEMIC Purposes. To teach EAP, one needs to be adequately qualified.The combination of "BA + CELTA", the usual credentials of most ESL/EFL teachers, nowadays - let alone, "just CELTA only" ! - would not qualify one to teach EAP at a reputable university ! To get such a position, one would need to possess something like a Master's degree in Applied Linguistics, that covered appropriate subjects, such as : ESP (ie, English for Specific Purposes, not the other one !), Discourse Analysis, Genre Analysis, Intercultural Communication, etc. Also, one would need to possess a Master's degree (or higher) in the major subject area that one's students are covering in their degree programme ( Biology, English Literature, Economics, or whatever). Please note that I stipulated "reputable" universities - meaning, those in the top 10% of China's university rankings list - where a significant proportion of students are hoping to undergo postgraduate training in English-speaking Western countries. I'm not aware of, but wouldn't at all be surprised, if some of the lower ranking tertiary institutions, in their quest to increase tuition fees, might advertise the fact that some of their advanced degree programmes have an emphasis upon EAP, thanks to their highly-qualified Foreign Experts (sic !). In such places, I dare say, you might find the "BA + CELTA" crowd. But, what of their salaries ? I'm pretty sure that those "EAP teachers" would only be paid slightly more than their Oral English colleagues - probably, no more than 5.5 K per month for a normal work load of 16-18 hours pw !

In your posting, you also mentioned "lots of experience teaching adults" as a way of getting into the EAP field. To me, it would appear that the sort of experience that most FTs have had has been in the teaching of Oral English. Undoubtedly, such experience would be relevant to certain areas of EAP, such as helping students to express themselves in seminar/tutorial situations (eg, to disagree with professors and fellow-students, without being disrespectful); an ability that is crucial if one is to succeed in a university in the UK/US/NZ, etc. But, appropriate oral skills is only one aspect of EAP. Probably of far greater importance is the need to improve the students' writing skills; not merely in grammar usage, but also in areas concerning appropriate genres, discourse styles, etc.

Further on the question of money.You mentioned that it's possible to make around 25 K RMB per month. But, where, exactly ? Certainly not in the university sector ! Even in the top-ranked universities, I doubt very much if the salaries would be much higher than in the lower ones. Probably, with the appropriate academic qualifications, along woth several years experience, you might be able to get around 7 K per month for the usual 14-16 hours pw. I have heard that in Shanghai, it's possible to earn considerably more for a normal working week, but you might loose out on perks such as a rent-free flat, etc.

It's possible, though, as a result of light teaching loads at one's university, to make considerable money by moonlighting doing EAP-type work, such as helping an advanced-level student develop his/her essay-writing skills. But the teacher would need to know what to do ! A (mere) CELTA background and a couple of years teaching Oral English will not suffice ! Yes, you might have a reasonable grasp of the intricacies of English grammar, but would you have an understanding of the student's major subject (eg, Economics) and, say, the accepted genres in expressing concepts peculiar to that particular discipline ? Even, in a less arcane discipline, such as English Literature, do you really think that it's fair - if not professionally unethical - to be instructing the student, considering that your knowledge of the subject is based on what you did at high school ? For such a teacher to portray him/herself as a "teacher of EAP" - in the hope of earning the "big bickies" - is, in my opinion, nothing short of attempting to obtain money under false pretenses.

Yes, it may be possible to earn "big money" in China. But you would need not only the appropriate academic qualifications, but also the willingness to put in long hours - even working just 14 hours pw in one's regular university job can be pretty draining, I can assure you ! You would also need to be able to use your networking skills with other FTs, ex-FTs, students, people who run ex-pat bars, etc, to find potential students. And when you do find students, you would need to provide good value for money. If students begin to realise that they are not getting much from your efforts, they'll soon drop you - and, news of your incompetence will soon spread around town ! So, if you want to make reasonable money, and your academic qualifications aren't crash-hot, you'll not only have to put in the hours, but only teach that what you feel competent in, even if it's just run-of-the-mill Oral English.

The OP (and others contemplating coming here) might well be advised to do a search on Dave's on "moonlighting" etc. If one is, say, offered 120 per hour for two hours work on a Saturday, such a "part-time" job could involve over six hours of your time ! For example, a class (for v.young kids) might be for 30 minutes, then you have to go to the other side of town to teach at another of your employer's schools, and so on. Even if the lessons happen to be at the same location, there might be intervals of 30 or 60 minutes between lessons, for which you are not paid for ! Thus, such a 2-hour job could spoil your entire Saturday !

In your other posting, Jammish, you mentioned that you are able to save (only) 7 K out of your 10.5 K salary. Aren't you provided with free housing ? I'm currently on 6 K ( for 14 hours pw), but am able to save around 5.5 K per month ! The OP should be aware that the cost of living is quite low in China. It's possible to save a reasonable amount - provided that one doesn't frequent bars that charge 15-25 RMB for a small Heineken ! If one requires more money, he/she would be advised to ask if its possible to do some overtime at his/her's uni, rather than to hunt around for private students or to do p/t jobs at language schools, for reasons just mentioned. Also, if one is in China during the two-month summer break, it is possible to get work at summer schools.


Regards,

Peter

[baasbabelaas]

[cj750]

[prof]

I suspect that when you say South Africa most Chinese will think of Mandela.

But the few South Africans I've met here have been very decent people: energetic and popular teachers.





(PS: Clark, I never knew you were teaching in low paid position stuck in Sichuan. You should tell people about that to give your website more validity.)

[sojourner]

Baas,

Don't confuse the poor guy ! He probably knows less about RSA than he does about Australia ! He would probably think that all black people still wear traditional clothing in the cities - that is, if he thinks that there are any cities in South Africa ! - and if there are any white people, that they all wear pith helmets ! ( Ahhh, the stereotypes !). And, as for the complex language situation in your country - it'll be far too much to take in ! Maybe, if he does know a little about your country's recent past, I'm sure that he would come up with some crap that South Africans would be unsuitable for EFL work because of their (supposed) tendencies towards violence, as well as their (supposed) racist attitudes. More stereotyping !

It's some years since I was in South Africa (before 1994, in fact). Regarding your name of "baas", is is still used by Africans when addressing white people ? Also, I hope that the "k" word has disappeared ! Would love to go back there - many happy memories -Cape Town is one of my favourite cities.

Regards,

Peter

[furiousmilksheikali]

[prof]

I have explained how "the Chinese" view a certain country.

There's a reason why IELTS students are lined up to go to Australia.

They view it as an easy mark. Filled with simpletons. But still better than the countryside peasants called "New Zealand."

But it's a third rate country in the eyes of many Chinese.

I think one of the problems is that Australia has never had a "superstar" character to attract the Chinese. No Bill Clinton. No DaShan/Bethune. No Princess Diana/007. Australia is not "big 3" in China.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

[jammish]

Re. the teaching of EAP. I didn't say that it was easy to get such a position with just a BA and CELTA, just that it was possible. I have three friends who have taught EAP in China for around the salaries I mentioned. All finished uni, did their CELTA, taught in some other countries, and then got EAP positions here with ACE. Of course, competition is tough for their jobs, and I'm not saying that any old idiot can get them, but it is possible for a reasonable competent individual. They do stress a lot of experience teaching adults though.

As to my own salary - yes I am provided with free housing, although we must pay utilities which amount to around 500 RMB per month or so. And I have a wife and baby to look after! Anyway we have a reasonably good lifestyle, eating out reasonably regularly etc, eating well, so I think to be able to save 7000 a month is pretty decent as far as I'm concerned.

[rdix]

When I look at some of the terms and conditions offered to "English Teachers in China," - I think, - Hey, this is becoming the richest country in the world, - the English language is obviously critical, - and yet they are such cheap artists in their offerings to acquire qualified persons to teach English according to their convoluted Chinese requirements - business English, medical English, Workplace English and teachers to teach commercial English.

OK TEFL and TESOL teachers from around the world, - you are generally (but not always) prostituting yourselves financially to some other nations' idea of "what they can get you for." As a seasoned international consultant, I personally don't like this approach.

Quality Control as we know it in the industrial world, does not seem to exist in the realm of overseas English language eduction.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how we (the freelancer TESOLS and TEFOLS of this work - whatever our basic academic background,) can maken some contribution to cleaning up the quality of job definitions and the quality of responses thereto?
rogerD

[jammish]

The conditions in China, even for the 5000-6000 RMB a month posts (assuming that they include a free apartment et al) aren't nearly as bad as some of those in Europe, which pay poverty wages. At least in China you can live at a good level locally, even on 5000.

Heck, I have never worried about money as little as I have since I came to China.

[rdix]

Could we now get rid of this 3 year old post please?

[prof]

This is a good thread.

Puts Australians in a realistic place.

[Malsol]

Prof - I know you and I like you. Most importantly, I think you contribute a great deal to this forum.

But, would you consider that just because it is the "truth" you do not need to so forcefully slap someone in the face with it?

I agree with what you have said but isn't there a kinder and gentler way to say it or are the dummies here so dense that you need to treat them like Missouri mules?

[OGFT]