Job Discussion Forums

[doriangray]

Hello...

I was wondering:

Of the English teachers who look at this forum, who can say that they speak fluent Russian?

I am particularly curious about those of you who didn't speak any or much Russian before moving to Russia.

I knew an English teacher in France with whom I took French classes, and his French suffered as a result of spending so much time speaking English.

Jason

[rusmeister]

Uh, I can.

I learned it as an adult, and bounced back and forth for years before settling. Does that qualify?

Use of native language in the classroom is a difficult dance, particularly with beginning adults, who can't get anywhere without some native language support, but have to be encouraged to shift into English-only as early as possible.

With the little kids, it's easy. I just pretend to be a stupid American that doesn't understand them.

[teach101]

I will be going to Russia the start of next year.
At the moment, I can only speak just a few words.
I'm sure it will be quite a challenge to interact with everyone outside of the school.
Now I begin to wonder if all of those drama classes will pay off...
Perhaps the Russian people will understand my gestures or perhaps they will not.
Maybe they will think of me like Charlie Chaplin it will be quite entertaining to see how they will react.

[efl bird]

I spoke the basics outside the class, but never took formal lessons. It's not necessary to speak Russian in class, in fact I would discourage it, as they need to learn to function in English. With simple, graded instructions the learners can understand what they have to do, and can absorb a lot of knowledge. At beginner level, they are learning very simple concepts and concrete lexis which I found could be taught through mime and visuals.

[Larry Paradine]

I don't want to get caught up in the battle of words that always erupts when the fraught question of using L1 in the classroom comes up, but I think the original question had a wider remit than the classroom. The fact is that, unless you're going to spend every minute of every day of your spare time in Russia in the company of Anglo-expats and Russians who already have a high level of communicative English, you'll need a grasp of the basics just to cope with the everyday demands of shopping, asking directions, etc. At the very least, you should learn the Cyrillic alphabet. You don't need to be fluent; in seven or so years of life in Russia, I haven't really progressed much beyond an intermediate stage, in fact I think a Russian teacher might classify me as a pre-int, but I can get my message across and generally understand what people are saying. That makes all the difference between functioning on the same level as the man or woman in the street and living in the rarified atmosphere of a little colony of expats and Russian linguists.

[spiral78]

I'm in agreement with Larry - it's not just a classroom issue.
In a sense, its rather rude to live in a country and make no effort to learn its language. Functionally, you minimize your experience of the country as well.

[doriangray]

Thank you for your replies.

It is true that I was inquiring more about the level of fluency you have acquired when using Russian in your day-to-day life outside the classroom.

I myself was a French major and I am currently teaching French in the US. I am considering making the transition to EFL, and teaching English in France may not be a realistic option due to visa restraints as an American.

I worked rather hard to make up for a proficiency level I didn't have before deciding to major in French. I studied in France for two seperate semesters, and I can now say with confidence that I am fluent in French, although not quite like a native speaker.

I have been interested in Russia and the language for a while, and I would devote time to learning Russian once there. However, I don't know if I would want to make the move if I would find it too difficult to learn a language that I have little time to speak, given that I would teach and think in English so frequently. For me, being abroad has been largely the pleasure of speaking the local language(s) (France, Belgium, Mali...). It makes a big difference in the experience.

Given that one responder stated that he/she has reached intermediate status after 7 years is a little discouraging to me! Would it take so long to learn the language (without having prior knowledge) due to time spent teaching English?

Thanks.

[rusmeister]

My experience says that a person who commits a serious amount of time - 15 or more hours a week in class and something close to that in homework/study (and ideally a couple hours a day in practical use of the language) can achieve what we would normally call 'intermediate in 2 or 3 years. I personally hit practical fluent in 5 years for Russian (from zero to master's degree) - but you have to REALLY want to do it!

Good luck!

[Larry Paradine]

Doriangrey, don't get discouraged by my linguistic ineptitude; actually I attained intermediate status in a couple of years, then found myself on a learning plateau that I've never been able to motivate myself to climb away from. Having a Russian wife who doesn't speak English should be incentive enough, but having a monolingual Russian wife who understands what I'm saying, or at least understands what I'm trying to say, and doesn't see any point in pushing me to improve my proficiency, has the reverse effect. I'm just lazy, that's all. I think rusmeister is talking about a level of fluency required only by professional interpreters and perfectionists; you should be quite capable of reaching what, for want of a better criterion, I'd call an upper-intermediate level in three years or less.

I know that a lot of people worry about being derided by Russians for their poor pronunciation or grammar and decide to avoid this by the simple expedient of not even trying to learn Russian, but I think this attitude is founded on a misapprehension. It's true that Russians can be rather sarcastic about foreigners who speak Russian poorly, but ONLY if they believe them to be from countries where Russian is taught in schools and used as a second language, i.e. the "near abroad" (C.I.S.) In winter I usually grow a beard which (I'm told) gives me a vaguely Islamic appearance and so I'm not surprised if I overhear deprecatory mutterings about that illiterate old buzzard from Uzbekistan/Turkmenistan/Kazakstan who speaks dog Russian (in summer the contemptuous appellation is "прибалтика", based on the assumption that I'm some elderly relic of the Soviet period who left the Baltic states rather than comply with the requirements of those countries that all foreign residents learn the indigenous languages, but who has long forgotten his native Russian). In other words, you may be listened to rather intolerantly if you're believed to be someone who should know Russian as a second language, but those same listeners will be much friendlier if they know you're from a country where Russian isn't a compulsory school subject, in fact they'll probably be so pleased that you've made the effort to learn their language that they'll go to the other extreme and warmly congratulate you on a fluency that you don't have. (And, by the way, this applies tenfold if you try out your almost nonexistent vocabulary of one of the Russian Federation's scores of ethnic non-Slav languages on an ethnic listener; I know about six words of Chuvash, but that's enough to make friends with every native Chuvash speaker from Shupashkar to Shemursha.)

[rusmeister]

Larry's quite right (although I wouldn't say 'perfectionist') - I am talking about intermediate and fluent in terms of formal university study. If you want enough Russian to 'get around' an intensive 6-month or one year course would be sufficient. It all depends on what level you want to communicate. Especially in the earlier stages of language learning we feel frustration over what we can't yet say - we know we are intelligent but realize that, not being able to communicate that, we look like doofuses.
And as Larry said, when they figure out you're not from a former Soviet republic they will appreciate your efforts at broken Russian.

[demoiselle]

This is a bit old ... but I'll pitch in anyway. I studied Russian on my own for a year, then did a 9 week intensive course. From the time I arrived in Moscow (I had been here before, not speaking Russian) I have been able to lead my day to day life without much difficulty, and can converse with strangers. I suppose I'm Intermediate-mid-to-high with Advanced listening comprehension.

Getting beyond this area is a matter of practice and aggressive word aquisition. I'm taking a part time, 3 day per week course. I am not sure that I'd move beyond intermediate-mid except in listening comprehension without a concentrated effort.

If possible, get ahold of a lot of pop music and/or Pimsleur tapes to work on singing along with correct pronounciation. Being able to make the correct sounds (even if you speak less well) gets you lots of brownie points. People regularly assume my level is higher than it is because I don't have a strong American accent.

demoiselle

[cheekygal]

I'll second demoiselle. I am a native Russian speaker and a linguist myself. I used to teach Russian as a foreign language though my major is in English and French as second languages. I know plenty of foreigners (students, businessmen and teachers) who were able to master Russian in a quite a short period of time. Russian is quite a difficult language to learn and hats off to those who take time and effort to learn it!

[demoiselle]

Thank you! And I'll take any tips you have to offer on how to quickly improve my current skills. I hope to be Advanced-Mid by next year...