Job Discussion Forums

[Gringo Greg]

Hello!

I need any extra insights into taking my wife and two sons with me to China. Our sons will both be under 3 years old when we arrive in China so schooling isn't really an issue at this stage. But canI earn enough to support them with my wife working part time? We are in Thailand now so we don't have a lot of problems with less developed living.

Alos what kind of paperwork do I need to have in order to sponsor them for the visa? I will go in on a Z. From what I read, they just need a Z also, but with my experience in Thailand, we needed a lot more documentation to get their visas extended. I want to make sure I arrive with all of the documentation needed.

[MyTurnNow]

It's possible to make enough money here but you'll have to be selective about jobs. I hope you give great resume.
Where do you plan to live? Can make a big difference in terms of salary requirements...also in terms of support and comfort for the kids. I recommend you confine your search to the Big 3...Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou/Shenzhen.

You definitely need to work with your new employer on visas. A Z visa must be sponsored...you can't just walk up and apply for one the way you can with Tourist or Business visas. Zs are very expensive and I fear this will not be a big selling point when you are job hunting.
I'm just not sure exactly how this works. Chapter I Article 3 of the exciting "Law of the People's Republic of China on Entry and Exit of Aliens" (aka 'The Blue Book') says that Zs can be issued to "aliens who come to China to take up posts or employment and to their accompanying family members", but what the costs are I simply can't tell from this...if this amounts to buying 4 visas it'll be expensive.

Chapter VIII Article 54 says that "An alien child under the age of 16 who uses the same passport with his/her parent or guardian need not, while visiting China with his/her parent or guardian, go through the entry, transit, residence, or travel procedures separately." Do your kids have their own passports, or use yours?

The best advice is to physically go to your nearest Chinese embassy or consulate and get the straight poop on this unusual situation.

MT

[Roger]

From what I heard, people in similar circumstances usually get a dependant's visa at their own expense. The school sponsors you, and you sponsor your family, sort of.
SOme schools can't afford proper housing for your family though. There is hardly any housing market,at least in the better part of China, so in the end your employer will have to solve that problem - if they can!
Have you thought of your kids as a walking sensation in an alien land?

[Minhang Oz]

We came in a slightly similar position, except my wife has a Chinese passport. Our son - then 3 - got a residents permit at the same time as me, and I think I paid for that.
With your background you'll have no trouble slotting in. You might like to consider sending your rugrats to childcare once you've settled, for many good reasons, language and socialisation for starters.
A school that can meet your accommodation needs will be the big issue, along with location and salary. I'd venture a sum of at least 6000 a month. We came on a base 8000, which was double what we actually needed [in Shanghai], and my wife stared PT work after 6 months which has now gone to FT. Extra work here is easy to find for a well qualified native speaker, paying up to 250 an hour .
China is cheap of course; costs for kids clothes are very low, and as you'll probably do a lot of home cooking, so are ingredients. And that's in Shanghai. Other places are cheaper still.
Regulars have seen this stuff many times, so PM if you want more info.

[Minhang Oz]

No secret Jen; I got one within 5 minutes of emailing re: an ad. with www.expatsh.com
250 per hour, but I think I said UP TO, not AT!

[beerdang]

Minhang, it sounds to me that you get your visa through your wife. Is it correct?

I am reading a book about Montessori and thinking about enroll my son next year. Flashing back to my school days, I'd say it is radically different from the approach in the book. Maybe I should say it is a lot worse.
Do you think your son get a good education out of the regular chinese kindergarten? I'd expect him to be treated very differently being foreign.

Thanks for sharing any insight on this if you will. This might be 101 times I asked.

[Jess_Laoshi]

Beerdang, I was educated in Montessori schools and my mother is a Montessori teacher. It's not for everyone, but for me, and many others, the method is very good. PM me if you want more info, I'd be glad to share.

[Minhang Oz]

Beerdang, I got a Z visa, and our son has an Australian passport, so he got his residents permit through me.
He attends kindergarten mornings only, as he refuses to follow the afternoon sleep regimen. We've adjusted our schedules to accommodate this. The building is new, thoughtfully designed, clean, and the teachers caring and professional.

[Roger]

Beerdang asked a very pertinent question - difference(s) between MONTESSORI and a Chinese kindergarten!
A Chinese kindergarten, unfortunately, works much like a very typical regimented school: Lessons exactly accodrding to timetable, kids sitting at their desks, obeying a "teacher', repeating after her, tepeating after her, not thinking for themselves...
That is unacceptable to Montessorians (I know about them through a book on the method written by an American).
There are very few Montessori KG's in China. I heard of one in Peking, and I have seen another school (ahem, make that "kindergarten") in Foshan which illicitly uses the Montessori name. The teaching is absolutely not Montessorian - far from it!
The main difference is: CHinese parents want to monitor the "progress" of their progeny, so they will complain in no uncertain terms when they discover that their kid is NOT LEARNING 5 NEW VOCABLES EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK!
Montessorians involve their children's parents in kindergarten activities - you can't expect Chinee parents to spend time watching and assisting in the kindergarten, or even accept a DIFFERENT, i.e. Western teaching style!
Just be aware of this if you enrol your child in a Chinese kindergarten!

[Minhang Oz]

Roger's description of a Chinese kindergarten is in perfect accord with what I've observed as a parent. In my experience though, it is a benevolent and loving, if strict, dictatorship! As our son is deemed "foreign", even though he is half Chinese, all kinds of exceptions are made, such as the half day attendance thing. While other students produce carbon copies of the cat drawn by the teacher, our son does a Dali-like surreal moggy. There's no sign of this being conditioned out of him by an education system that thinks B.F. Skinner is the latest thing. And the positives by far outweigh the negatives.

[Anne-Marie Gregory]

The label Montessouri is almost as mis-used as that $165 Gap one !!!! The term actually means something in places with stricter adherance to conventions and, er, ethical standards.

[Gringo Greg]

Not too worried about nursery or school yet. I can't imagine it could be any worse than the options in Thailand. My son is very used to people viewing him as a curiosity. He is the first white baby they have ever seen. He is content and happy with it.

I am mainly concerned about being able to provide for them on a teacher's salary. If I can do that then all is well. I am a teacher, I can teach my son, at home, what he needs to know if his Chinese school isn't giving it to me.

About applying for visas, is it possible to get the Z visa in Hong Kong? How long does it take?

Thanks,
Greg

[Roger]

I suggest you read up on FAO's thread on teaching in China;
I only wish to add you must not pin your hopes on getting your visa easily, and by by-passing official channels!
You need to be physically fit (no HIV), and be sponsored by an approved mainland school to qualify for a work visa!
Roger