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StayingPower
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 252
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 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: EFL teacher Put to Death? |
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I'd like to know if anyone'd heard about the Canadian that was put to death for dealing, or smuggling, drugs into Taiwan. Anyone?
Is there a link via the China Post or anything? A Canadian I know working in Korea had told me about this but I can't find anything.
It really makes me wonder what he'd gone through, how horrible that must've been. I know it's his own fault but my thinking is, was he at least given the dignity of having his body returned to his homeland, family or what? |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
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I did a search for him (Mathieu Forand) but there is nothing about him being executed. I think he is still alive and from what I understand he is more likely to get a long sentence than death.
I assume thats what you refering to. |
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Toe Save
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Location: 'tween the pipes.........
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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If you are talking about Matty, he got 15 years. Those close to him are hoping for an early release during the next change of government.
He is doing quite well, all things considered. He is a stand up guy. Doing the time for doing the crime. As I understand the situation, he manned up immediately so his guests who were caught in the net could be released on bail.
FWIW, the prosecution was asking for the death penalty. |
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StayingPower
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, that's quite a relief as someone from afar had said he was sentenced to death. I couldn't imagine. |
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Serious_Fun
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1171
Location: terra incognita
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Toe Save wrote: |
| Those close to him are hoping for an early release during the next change of government. |
You are referring to his cellmates I presume?
| Toe Save wrote: |
He is a stand up guy. Doing the time for doing the crime. As I understand the situation, he manned up immediately so his guests who were caught in the net could be released on bail. |
Forand ("Matty"... what a laugh...) is a convicted criminal. He is a slimeball. He did much to bring the reputations of legitimate educators, and foreigners in general, into disrepute. He deserves to be behind bars. What other laws did he violate while "teaching"?
Trying to perpetuate some myth about his "manliness" (a "stand-up guy", "manned-up immediately") reminds me of some English propaganda war film or an Enid Blyton book (another form of anglo propaganda).
I was surprised to read your comments Toe Save...your posts here are usually more realistic.
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Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| Well he has to be a stand up guy because if he bends over while in prison......... |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Toe Save wrote:
Those close to him are hoping for an early release during the next change of government.
You are referring to his cellmates I presume?
Toe Save wrote:
He is a stand up guy. Doing the time for doing the crime. As I understand the situation, he manned up immediately so his guests who were caught in the net could be released on bail.
Forand ("Matty"... what a laugh...) is a convicted criminal. He is a slimeball. He did much to bring the reputations of legitimate educators, and foreigners in general, into disrepute. He deserves to be behind bars. What other laws did he violate while "teaching"?
Trying to perpetuate some myth about his "manliness" (a "stand-up guy", "manned-up immediately") reminds me of some English propaganda war film or an Enid Blyton book (another form of anglo propaganda).
I was surprised to read your comments Toe Save...your posts here are usually more realistic. |
You took the words right out of my mouth |
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Toe Save
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Location: 'tween the pipes.........
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Serious_Fun wrote: |
| Toe Save wrote: |
| Those close to him are hoping for an early release during the next change of government. |
You are referring to his cellmates I presume?
| Toe Save wrote: |
He is a stand up guy. Doing the time for doing the crime. As I understand the situation, he manned up immediately so his guests who were caught in the net could be released on bail. |
Forand ("Matty"... what a laugh...) is a convicted criminal. He is a slimeball. He did much to bring the reputations of legitimate educators, and foreigners in general, into disrepute. He deserves to be behind bars. What other laws did he violate while "teaching"?
Trying to perpetuate some myth about his "manliness" (a "stand-up guy", "manned-up immediately") reminds me of some English propaganda war film or an Enid Blyton book (another form of anglo propaganda).
I was surprised to read your comments Toe Save...your posts here are usually more realistic.
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Are all y'all's egos and reputations so fragile that the misdeeds of one person can shatter them? I'd have to say that you are a pretty weak waste of a whiteboard if you believe that.
Y'all are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. Personally, I'll take a thousand such "slimeballs" over the drunken bums that I've encountered time and again in the "teaching" industry. Matty is an intelligent, kind and funny guy who messed up big time. He liked to party and his friends preferred a different stimulus than most of you. Personally, I'd prefer a society that outlaws drunkeness. Drunks are mean, belligerent f-wads that can inflict great harm on innocent people. If governments would get their heads outta Uncle Sam's butthole long enough to realize that addiction is a medical condition and that drugs can be controlled and taxed (like ciggies and booze are), maybe we could concentrate our policing efforts on the true slimeballs of society: the terrorists, the sex tourists and the Enron executives. And the drunks. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I'm more with Toe Save on this one. Mr Forand made a mistake and committed a crime in a foreign land. He is, rightly, serving a sentence for that. I'm sure he is aware of his mistakes. If I were him, I don't think I'd be proud of what I did. But do we really know that he's a "slimeball?"
Expats, when you subtract the transient ones who come and go within a year, are actually a very small group within Taiwan. There are surprising few degrees of separation between longer term foreign residents. Many know each other or know of each other through mutual acquaintances. The better among these people help to create a feeling of community and provide support to expats. Some of my friends encouraged me to be a positive part of the community. I met some expats for the first time when visiting them in hospital after they had had an accident. Stuck in a hospital in small town Taiwan, they were grateful for my visit. I could only imagine what it must be like to be in a prison cell. Whether they deserve to be there or not, foreigners behind bars are still part of the foreign community and I admire those who still treat these people like humans.
| Quote: |
| He did much to bring the reputations of legitimate educators, and foreigners in general, into disrepute |
I disagree. For one, I don't believe the Forand incident had any signifigant impact on the foreigner image in Taiwan. I believe Mr Forand damaged his own reputation, but I think most people are reasonable enough to know that the actions of this one individual are not a reflection of the international community as a whole. For those few who might draw conclusions concerning a whole, diverse group of people based on the actions of a single person, well, I never much cared what bigots thought anyway. |
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Toe Save
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Location: 'tween the pipes.........
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Steve. Sincerely. I know that must have taken alot for you to back me up.
Cheers. |
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Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| The individual in question wasn't merely someone who used drugs for recreational purposes and this wasn't a case of simple possession. He helped import and distribute drugs. He profitted from the drug trade. He is/was a criminal engaged in an activity that carries the death sentence. Backing over a neighbour's garbage can is a mistake. It clearly states, in English, in the airports what the penalty can be for drug trafficking. He chose to ignore this fact and got off lucky as far as I'm concerned. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Xenophobe wrote: |
| The individual in question wasn't merely someone who used drugs for recreational purposes and this wasn't a case of simple possession. He helped import and distribute drugs. He profitted from the drug trade. He is/was a criminal engaged in an activity that carries the death sentence. Backing over a neighbour's garbage can is a mistake. It clearly states, in English, in the airports what the penalty can be for drug trafficking. He chose to ignore this fact and got off lucky as far as I'm concerned. |
I don't think the issue is whether or not Mathieu committed a crime or got just punishment for his actions. Yes, he broke the law and that law is clearly stated. So what? Does that justify demonizing the guy?
Toe Save wrote using language that affirmed Mr Morand's humanity (eg"Matty") and got criticism for doing that. I have to ask, rhetorically, why that is. It strikes me as some kind of mob mentality or something. Let's dehumanize the guy; he's not a human anymore--don't call him "Matty"-- he's a "slimeball".
I'll restate that the matters are not whether or not what Mathieu did was a crime, whether he ought to have done it or not or whether he deserves his sentence or not. The question is whether people who break laws are human: can they have families, friends and people who visit them during their incarceration in foreign lands--can they have people who speak of them as a person and not a monster?
A poster commented that Toe Save's posts are usually "more realistic." Toe Save undoubtedly knows or knows of Mr Forand in Taiwan. That seems pretty real to me. I wonder if Serious_Fun has ever even been to Taiwan, much less have any direct connection with people such as Mathieu. Who's being "realistic?" |
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Serious_Fun
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1171
Location: terra incognita
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| Yes, he broke the law and that law is clearly stated. So what? |
| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
Toe Save wrote using language that affirmed Mr Morand's humanity (eg"Matty") and got criticism for doing that. I have to ask, rhetorically, why that is. It strikes me as some kind of mob mentality or something. Let's dehumanize the guy; he's not a human anymore--don't call him "Matty"-- he's a "slimeball". |
The comfortable and easy familiarity with which a criminal is referred to struck me as being very odd. This wannabee gangster, folk-hero or not to some in this community, is a slimeball. God forbid that I would ever question the humanity of someone involved in narcotrafficing; I am not a judge. But misplaced devotion towards Forand, or anyone else for that matter, could lead to further poor decisions...perhaps looking the other way as he steals your roommate's wallet?
 Oh, its cool...its only Matty! ha ha He's a great guy...he'll buy a round at the pub tonight!
A little reminder for those who may not know the details:
Forand was caught with 414g of cocaine, 515g of marijuana and hundreds of ecstasy pills.
That, my fellow TEFLers, is a ****load of drugs.
This is not some decent and upstanding man who made a little mistake. Forand ("Matty") admitted in court to having sold drugs on the island for years! (and I still insist that he brought all of us, generally, into disrepute, if even for a short while.)
| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
I'll restate that the matters are not whether or not what Mathieu did was a crime, whether he ought to have done it or not or whether he deserves his sentence or not. The question is whether people who break laws are human: can they have families, friends and people who visit them during their incarceration in foreign lands--can they have people who speak of them as a person and not a monster? |
 I disagree - the issue here is that the Toe Save's post lionized someone who commited a serious crime.
| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
A poster commented that Toe Save's posts are usually "more realistic." Toe Save undoubtedly knows or knows of Mr Forand in Taiwan. That seems pretty real to me. I wonder if Serious_Fun has ever even been to Taiwan, much less have any direct connection with people such as Mathieu. Who's being "realistic?" |
Knowing somebody and writing realistically are two entirely different things...
Having said/written that I should point out that:
 yes, (gasp), Taiwan has been, and is, graced by my presence...and I may be sitting next to you in the teacher's staff room tomorrow. 
yes, (gasp), I have puffed weed before, and I agree with those who state that alcohol-abusers may be much more damaging to themselves, families, and societies, than a casual pot smoker may be. (remember that Forand was caught with cocaine and ecstasy...not just few joints.)
I worked within the juvenile justice system for a few underpaid years. Many are the wannabee gangsters that I have tried to counsel and teach...and they were all humans who had weeping mothers/friends pleading for leniency.
[img]http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/file/4028818208f91f720108f93b486d0005%7C[/img]
Last edited by Serious_Fun on Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| But misplaced devotion towards Forand, or anyone else for that matter, could lead to further poor decisions...perhaps looking the other way as he steals your roommate's wallet? |
Nonsense. For one the argument is a fallacy. Nobody is showing any undue devotion. Discussing a criminal, who's doing his time, in human terms does not lead to looking the other way as he steals from you. Nobody suggests that those who do crimes shouldn't serve their time. What was that Toe Save wrote? Oh yes:
| Quote: |
| Doing the time for doing the crime |
Nobody is looking the other way with regards to Forand. The point is not his crime, the quantity of narcotics he possessed when arrested or the punishment he received as a result.
The issue at hand is why you feel the need to criticize one who discusses a convict he probably knows in person as if he were a human with friends, family and other human qualities. You'd do the same if Mathieu were someone you knew. You can believe that someone did something wrong and deserves punishment and STILL show them compassion and talk about them as a human being.
I don't believe that what Mathieu did is a minor thing. He got involved in narcotics trafficking in a state where the drug laws are some of the most severe in the world. He escaped capital punishment but by the grace of god and the fact that the current administration in Taiwan opposes the death penalty. I believe Mr Forand knew what he was risking and is serving hard time for his crimes.
Beyond that, I don't understand the need to continue to demonize someone you haven't met or, worse, criticize someone who obviously knows the man and simply writes about him as a human with redeeming qualities. You talk of being "realistic" in posts, Serious_fun. How realistic is it for you to cast stones at a man whose humanity and crimes you only know about through the internet and mass media?
PS. I don't believe for a millisecond that you are actually in Taiwan, SF. You posted at 5 am Taiwan time. I am only posting at this time because I am back on Pacific standard time while visiting my home town of Vancouver. |
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Serious_Fun
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1171
Location: terra incognita
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| You can believe that someone did something wrong and deserves punishment and STILL show them compassion and talk about them as a human being. |
I agree with you 100% on that point...that is reasonable and even natural.
I perceived Toe Save's post as being almost complimentary towards the person who is now serving time for narco-trafficking (and who will never get a professional license in education, science, law, engineering, etc. due to the drug conviction, considered to be a moral turpitude in Western nations.)
This was a matter of different perceptions...thank you for your humanitarian views. (I am not being sarcastic!)
| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
PS. I don't believe for a millisecond that you are actually in Taiwan, SF. You posted at 5 am Taiwan time. I am only posting at this time because I am back on Pacific standard time while visiting my home town of Vancouver. |
err..no it was early afternoon. Perhaps your webpage shows GMT?
Enjoy your holiday. |
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