Job Discussion Forums

wannaBguru · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 110

beefer, i am not bashing u.

i offered to pay her salary on the condition that her mother not seek other employment for the child and that the girl in question attends school. that is why i asked u how much she was getting paid per month. not to be nosy, but to make sure that it fits within my budget. if u are paying her around 300,000 i will gladly do it. if u are paying her 5-600,000 i would need to reconsider.

i also asked if there were other people willing to help. if there were 11 other people willing to help, it would cost each of us only 300,000 per year (or whatever u are paying her). 24people=150,000/yr. we could each pick a month and pay only for that month. i would be happy to pay december and hopefuly someone else would be willing to pay january and so on, til i pay dec. 07. i can spend more than that on a night on the town and i dont even drink. even if no one else is willing, i stand by my offer...... i will pay each month if necessary. i know the education is free and the family needs the money, that is what i am offering.... to pay her salary in exchange for her going to school and having a poor, but normal childhood.

i dont give money to street children or any adult carrying a child/infant. it only encourages them to keep using children to make money. on jl melawai, there are tons of kids jumping on and off buses while their fat, lazy mothers sit on the sidewalk in the shade stuffing their faces, laughing, and gossiping. i know that while me not giving them money will not solve the problem, i dont want to condone or encourage it.

guglehuft, i agree his family would be horrified to know that beefer is employing a child to mop his floors. i was disgusted when i read it. however, i think that your suggestion of pimping out the child was over the top, tasteless and repulsive. lets work towards a solution, bashing gets us nowhere.

if u want beefer, u can pm me and we will see about paying the mother the salary for the child going to school. anyone else willing to contribute can also pm me. we cant help everyone, but maybe we can help her. thanks

sidjameson · Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 629 Location: osaka

It is truely awful to see the poverty that Indonesia has in bucket loads. Beefer is right though. Every kid you see sleeping on the street; How is providing them work any worse than just passing them by or as he said giving them a few 1000?

I dunno the answer. God it's depressing.

Thinking it through: Hopeless kid, do nothing? employ her?
Guess I would reluctantly say that giving her a job and treating her well was better.
But, BUT, once I had taken her into my home I dont know how I could stop myself from responding to her as a child. Emotionally how can you tell a 10 year old to "get back to work"? I cant help feeling that she has "become" your responsiblity Beefer. Yet I see the paradox. You've, IMO done the slightly better thing in hiring her, but now not to act would be doing the wrong thing.

I still see that nobody has the right to attack you though unless they are willing to do something about it themself.

Wannabeguru, respect for standing on the plate.

Put me down for a month's salary too Beefer.

Anybody else? Chester, Gugelhupf? Just think of the satisfaction you could feel knowing that your criticism was justifiable because you were willing to act.

gugelhupf · Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 575 Location: Jabotabek

I'll stand a month's pay or SD school fees for next semester - whichever is the greater.

beefer · Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 238 Location: java

i just got back from a very extended lunch break where my family and our maids had a long talk and here is what came out of it.

1. the 10 year old maid does not want to leave.
2. she does not want to go to school ( i know, she's only 10 and isn't really aware of what she needs...not wants)
3. her mother will be angry if she doesn't bring money home each month
4. if we don't keep her, she will look for work elsewhere.
5. now she thinks i don't like her and is afraid to tell her mother that " she did something wrong to mister"

all that being said, and after all the offers from you people out there i must say that i salute you for your offers of goodwill. however, this is not a money issue. however this plays out, i will be able to afford it. i pay each of my pembantus' 550,000 a month( i only mentioned this because somebody asked this question), so to cover the school costs( should that be the road chosen) is not a big deal.
but where does the line get drawn? do i just keep her at the house and send her to school but still give her money each month to give to her mom??...sounds easy enough. but is that fair to her sister who works for the money to send home? lets also not forget that isn't an orphan and it will only be a matter of time before more mothers start sending their kids to my house for handouts.
" well beefer, this is your bed and now you have to....."
true enough in some ways, but i do have to admit that i havent felt comfortable with this from the beginning. she has certainly helped around the house while has been there.......and no, she is not overworked, infact she spends most of her day watching cartoons and coloring with my 3 year old. the point to this rambling ( i'm sorry for that) is that i am not quite sure what the best road is. i promised to see her mother in the kampung and that is where i am leaving to now. i'm sure a solution will be worked out then.

those of you that did offer advice, solutions etc... , i thank you. plus ,its good to see that there are some good bules out there. still, there will be no need for any donations for this girl....it will get worked out.
those that chose to use this as a chance to vent some kind of built up frustration or whatever it was....relax, no one actually pays attention to those kinds of ignorant jibes.
for those that might be interested, i'll tell you how its going on monday.

ps-- gugelhupf, good to see you settled down a little.........breathe in ..............breathe out..................breathe in .....................breathe out.
seriously, i appreciate your offer ( everyones offers) but they won't be needed here. i just hope that everyone ends up happy in this.

Chester · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 383 Location: Australia

I have sponsored an orphanage for 2 years.
having a 10 year old as a servant is wrong.
end of story.
garry glitter would disagree.

beefer · Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 238 Location: java

" i have sponsored an orphanage for 2 years" .........ummm...ok...
"having a 10 year old servant is wrong" .....broken record....broken record....broken record
"end of story"....oh, thank god
"gary glitter would disagree" ........the perfect ending to your pointless post

cariduit · Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: oz/indo

Sorry to jump into a post that seems pretty much over by now, but I did want to make the sad point that school is definitely NOT practically free for students in Indo, even SD. School fees are a very small cost by Western standards, but a lot of money for villagers, especially those with many children. I know stories of many young Indonesians who leave school very young because their parents a) can't pay their school fees (or uniforms etc) and/or b) need an extra income/pair of hands around the house and c) don't see the point of their children staying in school anyway.

I think the biggest problem is that the value of education is not considered so great - some kampung parents will argue that they finished SD or even beyond and it didn't help them get any further in life. And having spent time in a few different SD classrooms, it's easy to see their point. Some are direly inadequate environments for learning.

I know I would definitely not be comfortable with a 10 year old working in my home, but I can see your current dilemna. The easiest solution would have been to never have allowed the situation to arise in the first place!

gado_gado · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 28

I too was quite touched by all the people who wanted to contribute towards the little girl's education and future. It's good to see folk are decent underneath all the bitching and sniping that permeates some of the threads posted here.

Even you Beefer, and yes I landed a contract in Bali but it doesn't start til July 07. Guess i'll have to put my feet up for a few months, much nicer here than in Jakarta, I'm just glad to be out of there.

Put me down for a donation also.

xsbir · Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 81 Location: The Big Durian

beefer · Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 238 Location: java

sorry for the long delay, internet was down all week.

i met with the mother along with 10-15 other unwelcomed guests at her house... things did not go well at all.
she absolutely refuses to even consider letting her daughter go to school and was genuinely insulted at my offer to provide the money to do so, saying only that if i did not want her working at my house that she would find someone else who would....
.....all of the neighbors, seeing how upset the mother was, then proceeded to rudely ask me to leave the kampung...which i did

in closing, the girl is still at my house...doing a relatively small amount of work but continues to repeatedly tell my wife and i how " happy" she is that we still want her to stay.
i realize that all of you wanted a different/ better ending to this, but it didn't happen.
i have no idea what goes on in the mothers house with the other kids that live there but the girl prefers to stay with us and her sister here.
i can't and won't force her to do anything as long as she seems happy

cariduit, i am a westerner, so for me to pay for her schooling would not be alot...i think that was what the "practically free" comment was about

wanderer · Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 26

A friend of mine in Surabaya, a reletiviely new neighbourhood, had done every decent maid in a 6 street radius.

He's enjoying himself tremendously, doesn't have his own maid, but his ladies often wash his laundry for him.

He discovered that all he had to do was sit outside on his little porch in the evening, the maids would come to him, eventually.

Amazing

happy_me · Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:15 am Post subject:

Just to bear a dead horse, I know a teacher like that, he has a blast I think he is no his 5 wife in 2 years.

As for 10 year old maids, we all think we are helping by throwing money at the problem, but alas its not the answer, money only makes things worse by showing that westerners are like gods and have lots of cash to give them. It�s simple draw up a contact that says she is required to attend school as part of her working conditions, as well as teach the 3 year old, get it, it's a working contract and its now part of her job to study so she can teach your kid.

Gurusome · Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 58

First of all, how do you guys not get that Gugelhuph was being ironic when he was talking about pimping out the 10-y-o girl?

Secondly, I agree with Happy_me's last post. Make her go to school if she wants to work for you.

I'm pretty sure the manpower laws say something about children under a certain age not working more than four hours a day. That leaves plenty of time for school.

And I know domestic staff get shafted when it comes to the law being enforced and are treated differently to people employed outside homes, but that doesn't mean that you also have to ignore the law.

I don't like maids being called pembantus. Partly because it's not the correct plural, but mainly because pembantu means 'helper'. My maid didn't help me clean. She just cleaned. They are workers, and should be treated with the same respect and given the rights of all other workers.

Finally, if you're paying her 550,000 a month, the mother can't possibly believe she's going to get that much from anyone other than another bule. And, as I'm sure you're aware by now, the idea is abhorrent to most of us.

I'm sure you mean well, Beefer. But this is a problem you do have to solve.

And if she really, really, really doesn't want to go to school, then sack her and employ one of the many thousands of kids who would kill for the opportunity.