Job Discussion Forums

[Minhang Oz]

Trying to compare salaries across countries is a tricky proposition. If we simply convert to our home currency most developing, and indeed many developed nations, do not look good.
I'll use USD in the following example though, to show that as most of us know, it ain't necessarily so.

In Australia, my current salary [I'm on leave] would be around USD $3,600 a month; quite respectable for that country. For this, I'd work an 8 to 4 job, with plenty of meetings and take home work involved, say 50 hours a week based on my experience, and average out at $18 an hour. Before tax, housing and utilities, that is. Tax on this salary is 30%, housing variable, but let's say 20%.
That leaves $9 an hour for my family, or $1800 a month.

In China, by working 29 hours a week [no meetings or take home work], I'm getting $1750 a month at the moment. That fluctuates, as there's some part time work in there. Tax has been taken care of by my employers. Accommmodation and utilities are paid for. So the $1750 is there to spend in a country where living expenses are 20-25% of those in my home country. And I'm working 21 hours a week less!

So, where am I better off financially? And money was never a reason for coming here initially. So it's an accounting exercise worth doing to find your true economic situation.

[guru]

they pay your super too do they?

Other expenses include medical for family members, airfares for family members.

I'm getting $1800 in Jakarta but there's no parks or clean beaches or forests here, just buildings, shopping malls, slums and sewer rivers.

The money is not the overriding issue here.

[Gordon]

I get paid less than in Canada, but when you look at subsidized accomodation and an 80% reduction in income tax, the take-home packet looks more appealing. My biggest benefit is the holidays and shorter working hours, being at a university in Japan.

Quality of life is a big issue, especially if you have children. I can and have put up with dense housing, pollution, and lack of green space (unless you count the mold), but when you have children, your priorities change. Money is not as important as it once was and you become more selective of your work and living space.

[Minhang Oz]

Of course there are many other factors involved, and you can't put a price tag on some of them. I offered a necessarily simplistic comparison to hopefully make the point that you can end up with at least as much in your pocket at the end of the month in a developing country despite making less than half the income in your home land.
Super? My employer still contributes to my fund in Australia as I'm on leave. If I didn't have that, I'd need to save more. You need to be in a super fund for many years to have enough to retire on, and nearly all funds have lost money over the last few years, so it's not really such a great investment.

[Roger]

I can attest to Minhang Oz' example - it's not super but slightly better than the norm for someone who knows the ropes.
I can easily make RMB 14'000 - approximately the US$ 1750 he quoted though in my case, this would involve an unfair bit of legwork and taxi rides (potentially but not necessarily at my expense).
What Minhang forgot to mention is that he probably has no rental to take care of (I may be mistaken there as many expats in Shanghai do have to find their own lodgings, but in the rest of the country this is part and parcel of your contract).
He also failed to mention that he has probably lower medical bills as the employer is supposed to look after you (albeit unlikely to be dfone to your satisfaction).
It means - in theory - that a CHinese salary is almost entirely yours to spend as you deem fit.
He furthermore claims taxes are taken care of by your employer. Well, here he may simply be a lucky guy, luckier than those of us who work for a JV or a Western business school. Taxes can eat up to 25% into your pay provided you are making above 4000 net a month.
But then again, public schools have not fallen victim to the Chinese taxman's ra[acopismess!
And, it's true that we do not have to attend at meetings (unlike our local colleagues). A lot of more time on our hands.
It's equally true, however, that our timetables are nothing to go by; mine has changed almost every week, routinely on the day on which the changes became effective, sometimes a day before. This puts a spanner in your own moonlighting efforts.
And, to give a counter example - some schools refuse to honour your contract, paying as they like. If your timetable has fewer lessons than your contract stipulates, they remunerate you less. In one case, I have reasons to be angry for having seen my wages cut from 8000 to 3000 without notice.
Holidays may not be paid so long as you have no work contract (if they are still "processing" your visa application).

All in all, if your employer lives up to his part of the deal you do fine; if not you can be walking the road of ruins! In that case, you must even forget about those extras not even mentioned by Minhang - airfare refund and holiday allowance!

[struelle]

[Wolf]

I have no complaints about my salry at all. Provided that 1 US$ = 1 Chinese RMB by the end of the week, then I'll be passibly well off . . .

(Do I use the wink or sad emoticon here . . . .)

I'm a poor sot on his first contract to China who has a decent enough job work contidion wise, but not much in the way of . . . salry.

[Mike_2003]

I earn around $1000-$1200 a month giving private lessons and work about a 25 hour week. Much more can be earned in Turkey but it's enough for me to rent a three-bedroom flat, pay all my bills comfortably, save for a couple of holidays a year and go out more-or-less when I want. Couldn't do that in London!

In addition I don't have to deal with problem students, bosses, office politics, backstabbing co-workers, late wages, poor working conditions, mistrust, criticism and I can approach my work in my own way, choose my hours, choose my students and work setting - basically just 100% teaching without the BS. Not to mention often being brought breakfast, cakes, beers and taken out for meals. Not everybody's cup of �ay but it's good for me.

Mike

[arioch36]

Good point MOZ (may I call you MOZ?)

I work at a college for 4,000 12 hours, pretty stress free accept my current school is a rip off. If I really want to work 15 more hours a week, I can, say making a minimum (in Henan) 100 /per. School pays all nearly all expenses. free apartment, furniture, etc. New computer every year. School swimming pool. Long (too long) vacations. No income tax. No sales tax No social security tax. In America, taxes take away the first 4 1/2 months of salary. Where am I saving more?

Well probably, i would be saving a little more in America...but I take a lot more trips here in China. Obviously you would save more in Saudi..if you really want to teach here. I like teaching Chinese students more then American. I like the easy accessibility to the countryside in America, and the freedom of my car.

Lots of pros and cons, but the money isn't as bad as it sounds onthe surface.

And forget American dollars. I'm saving RMB. Hoping that China changes the exchange standard

[Minhang Oz]

Roger's point about school-provided housing with utilities paid for highlights one of the benefits of being here. Schools which don't offer this pay a higher hourly rate, or an accommodation allowance. Medical? I wouln't use the school clinic for anything more than a cold, so health insurance is the way to go, both here and at home. I think not running a car is a major saving: a necessity in Australia though. I don't think I'd have the nerve to drive in Shanghai anyway.

Feel free Arioch. I get called many things on these pages.

[FGT]

For me, quality of life says it all. Who cares how many pounds, dollars, euros etc you're earning; it's what you can do with it that counts.

In sterling terms I earn a fraction (in Turkey) of what I used to in UK but I have a nice flat, can eat out every night of the week if I so choose, can go to the beach or on other trips every weekend etc etc

My life here is far richer. The only problem is when I go to England on holiday - a fortnight's trip eats up at least one month's salary. And then there's retirement.....

[roadrunner]

A scanalously low salary (about �200 (net) or so a week) has prevented me from going to italy to teach English, after I completed a CLETA course in July (grade: B) and taught at a summer school in August here in the UK.

I planned to live in Italy for a year, learn the language and see what life was like there, but on reflection I feel that, at 32, I just can't afford to spend a year earning such a low salary in a country with Western level expenses.

However, for ELT teachers who lack a pension, all is not lost. In fact, unless you join your employer's occupational scheme (where they contribute along with you), personal pension plans are a very poor investment. Seek out "The Motley Fool" book (see also www.fool.co.uk) for a no-nonsense guide to building a sound income for retirement using the stock market. The evidence presented in its favour as a long-term investment tool (at least 5 years, but the longer the better) is compelling.

The �12.99 the book costs (2000 edition) may just be the most useful �12.99 you ever spend!

[Ajax]

In Eastern Europe I earned as a teaching assistant at a good university (OT included) less than 200 USD.
In Thailand I earn as teacher of English (secondary level) 800 USD.

[Dave Kessel]

Here in Saudi I am getting USD 3300 a month including the bonus pay at the end of the year + free accomodations, a free vehicle, free uniforms, free food, gas, utilities, two tickets a year and 41 days vacations- paid ( Alhamdurillah!).

I am not saving everything as I want to take vacations and do many things I have always wanted to do- diving, exhibiting my paintings in Europe and doing water sports. So, more or less I have been able to save USD18,000-20,000 a year. Some guys here who skimp and save, can save $30,000 a year.

Since I am in my forties and am no longer out there looking for social recognition, wine, women and song, I do not mind being here at all. Saudi is not free but nor is being back home hounded by bill and debt collectors.

Whether you will consider being in Saudi a step up or a step down depends on what you were before you came here. If you were living the life of James Bond or Jacomo Casanova, this place will not be an improvement.

If you were an unemployed, paunchy, balding, middle-aged man like me, wondering where your life was heading; divorced and with a huge debt, then, this is definitely better.

[Gordon]