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yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
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 Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: Overtime |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| We all know that in full-time jobs at universities and high schools, most teachers voluntarily choose to work longer hours than 40 per week. No employer is demanding it. So, if you choose to work "overtime", on your own volition and for whatever reasons, you are not being mandated to do so by your employer, so you shouldn't get any official overtime pay. |
That's not the way it is, Glenski.
http://nambufwc.org/japanese-law/labor-standards-law/
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What are the maximum number of working hours I can be made to work, and is there any kind of premium if I work over these hours?
(Articles 32, 36, 37, 3
The maximum hours of work that you can be made to work is 40 over six days. Anything over this must be voluntary and even voluntary overtime work has a limit which is set by ordinance. This ordinance allows for overtime of up to 5 hours per week.
Work over forty hours must be paid at a rate of 125% of your basic salary and all work between 10pm and 5am must be paid at 135%. Work on your designated rest day (one day per week) must also be paid at the rate of 135%. Employers must also have what is called an �Article 36 Agreement� which is signed by either a trade union or a workers� representative. Without this agreement, which must be signed by either a trade union representing over 50% of the work force or a workers� representative, overtime, even voluntary, is not allowed. This agreement not only sets the amount of overtime but also sets how overtime is calculated (i.e. monthly, weekly, yearly). Please see the section on workers� representatives. |
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yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Similarly, teachers in Japan cannot claim overtime for teaching-related job duties (e.g., grading and class preparation). |
That is a common perception, but entirely untrue.
That link is now dead, but I'm assuming that you are referring to the so-called White Collar Exemption that was recently under consideration. The current government has recently decided to shelve it for now. If it did pass into law, it would probably not be applicable to all but a very few English teachers because the salary requirement to qualify is expected to be more than 9 million yen a year, in addition to other requirements as having a certain degree of autonomy in managing their own working hours. |
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yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Similarly, teachers in Japan cannot claim overtime for teaching-related job duties (e.g., grading and class preparation). |
That is a common perception, but entirely untrue.
That link is now dead, but I'm assuming that you are referring to the so-called White Collar Exemption that was under consideration. The current government has recently decided to shelve it for now because of the measure is quite unpopular. If it did pass into law, it would probably not be applicable to all but a very few English teachers because the salary requirement to qualify is expected to be more than 9 million yen a year, in addition to other requirements as having a certain degree of autonomy in managing their own working hours. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| yamanote senbei wrote: |
| taikibansei wrote: |
| Similarly, teachers in Japan cannot claim overtime for teaching-related job duties (e.g., grading and class preparation). |
That is a common perception, but entirely untrue. |
You don't know what you are talking about. I deal with Japanese labor unions as part of my current job. During labor negotiations last year, a local union member (Japanese) tried to claim overtime--in my presence--for grading and class preparation and was shot down by the Rengo representative observing the proceedings. As the Rengo official said, "regardless of how long the activities actually take," grading and class preparation for regularly assigned classes "need to be completed during the allotted working hours."
If you feel the Rengo official was incorrect, give me a link to a specific case (Japanese is fine) where a non eikaiwa teacher successfully claimed overtime for, say, grading papers for his/her regular classes. Just one link would be great. Please, I look forward to this one.
By the way, after the proceedings finished, other members from the local union mentioned their embarrassment at this individual's comments, questioning his work ethic and even apologizing. One of them asked the guy directly why he even bothered to become a teacher, noting that all good teachers necessarily go above and beyond the call of duty for students in ways that cannot, and should not, be measured.
Out of curiousity, what's your answer to that question, Yamanote Senbei? I mean, I've been teaching full-time for 20 years--in both the US and Japan--yet have never encountered someone with your attitude before. Do you walk out on conversations with students if they extend into your lunch time? Do you just not assign homework? If a student came to your office, say, at 5:14 looking for advice on graduate school, would you tell the student your work day ends at 5:15? Would you advise the student but file for overtime? Or would you send the student away and file for overtime?
Indeed, as there is no definition, say, of "class preparation" on the books, anything can count, really. E.g., can't I claim even this post as "preparation" as well? After all, I'm blowing off some steam before I start my real preparation.... 
| yamanote senbei wrote: |
That link is now dead, but I'm assuming that you are referring to the so-called White Collar Exemption that was recently under consideration. The current government has recently decided to shelve it for now. If it did pass into law, it would probably not be applicable to all but a very few English teachers because the salary requirement to qualify is expected to be more than 9 million yen a year, in addition to other requirements as having a certain degree of autonomy in managing their own working hours. |
Actually, the stated salary requirements were lower, and outside of the eikaiwas, most teachers have sufficient autonomy to qualify. (Indeed, the whole purpose of the law was to bring Japanese labor practices more in line with those of other countries.) Of course, this was per the article--which indeed went dead over a week ago. Considering that you've posted repeatedly on other threads since I posted the link above, I need to ask, "Did you wait until it went dead before posting your response?" |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: Confirmed |
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I just confirmed my understanding with our university's main union representative. Class preparation and grading for regularly assigned classes can never be claimed as overtime. Furthermore, educators cannot usually claim overtime unless they've been ordered by their superiors to work overtime and/or assigned new responsibilities in addition to the workload originally assigned that necessarily require overtime (the latter would need to be proven in court).
In other words, you need to stop giving legal advice on this board to non eikaiwa instructors. Because they are seen by the courts as company employees rather than as teachers, eikaiwa instructors are treated differently than regular teachers by the legal system. Hence, while your advice is usually spot on for, say, someone at Nova, it is often disastrously wrong for others. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: |
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at my school, overtime is paid for teachers that have meetings, tests, or interviews after school (i.e. after 5:00).
Of course, these things are generally scheduled so they will be during normal working hours.
Before school starts, overtime is paid for work before reihai or kangeiko.
In general overtime isn`t paid for club activities. Club teachers are paid a certain amount every month in lieu of overtime.
No way is prep, grading, copying, etc. after 5:00 grounds for overtime pay, at my school.
At my school, I`d say if a teacher is working overtime, generally they have to. Some choose to, but not all. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Brooks wrote: |
| at my school, overtime is paid for teachers that have meetings, tests, or interviews after school (i.e. after 5:00). |
Right. All these are official activities in addition to the normal teaching of classes. As they take place after 5:00, overtime would have to be paid. Club activities (as you suggest), entrance exam grading and extended field trips are other examples of activities which would warrant either overtime or a special stipend.
| Quote: |
| Of course, these things are generally scheduled so they will be during normal working hours. |
A fact which actually strengthens the teacher's position when requesting overtime for these activities.
| Quote: |
| No way is prep, grading, copying, etc. after 5:00 grounds for overtime pay, at my school. |
Or at any other school in this (or any) country.....
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| At my school, I`d say if a teacher is working overtime, generally they have to. Some choose to, but not all. |
Most teachers I know of (including myself) certainly spend extra time on student advising, grading and class prep. However, as far as official overtime, I'd agree with you--the money you get for overtime is just not enough to justify the extra hassles the work entails. Indeed, there's not enough overtime money in the world to tempt me into even more meeting attendance. (My vision of Hell is forced attendance at an eternity of kyoujukais....  ) |
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ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Confirmed |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
In other words, you need to stop giving legal advice on this board to non eikaiwa instructors. Because they are seen by the courts as company employees rather than as teachers, eikaiwa instructors are treated differently than regular teachers by the legal system. Hence, while your advice is usually spot on for, say, someone at Nova, it is often disastrously wrong for others. |
Taikibansei, I think it's admirable that you've offered such an olive branch to someone who you've also so comprehensively made look a complete fool on this particular issue. However, I think you're being a bit charitable with the "usually spot on" description of the advice given by that poster to people working at eikaiwas.
I would NOT disagree at all that some of the points he raises re working at eikaiwas are indeed useful bits of information worth bearing in mind. But it seems clear the bottom line reason for the advice is "I don't like [ insert name of eikaiwa ] and I want YOU to not like them either" rather than "this is the best thing for you to do overall".
Incidentally, having had fairly lengthy experience of public school system teaching in countries other than the ones you have, I agree absolutely with your points on overtime pay. In the UK I sometimes even took students on whole day trips on what was usually a day off for me, but neither received nor expected overtime pay. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Confirmed |
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| ironopolis wrote: |
Taikibansei, I think it's admirable that you've offered such an olive branch to someone who you've also so comprehensively made look a complete fool on this particular issue. However, I think you're being a bit charitable with the "usually spot on" description of the advice given by that poster to people working at eikaiwas. |
I probably was indeed too kind, but the underlying point I still want to emphasize is that what holds true for eikaiwa litigation rarely is true for school teachers and/or university professors. The overtime issue is just one example of this.
If yamanote senbei had bothered to do some actual research on this subject (say, a Google search using these terms: 教員 and 残業), he'd have found that both the amount of overtime and lack of overtime pay are considered serious problems by teachers here in Japan. There are thousands of articles on just this topic. Here's just one:
http://www.jcp.or.jp/akahata/aik4/2005-04-19/05_02.html
| Quote: |
| Incidentally, having had fairly lengthy experience of public school system teaching in countries other than the ones you have, I agree absolutely with your points on overtime pay. In the UK I sometimes even took students on whole day trips on what was usually a day off for me, but neither received nor expected overtime pay. |
That's what I thought. Indeed, I can't imagine even asking for overtime pay in such a situation! My former colleagues in the States would have considered me mad.... |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW,
at the private HS where I used to work, teachers got special payment for extra special duties such as:
grading/proctoring the entrance exams
visiting dormitories on scheduled times (usually once a month)
open campus
second day of festival when lots of cleanup was required
How much were those special fees? About 1000-3000 yen.
No club activity participation was paid. Football coach and his assistant got money from the parents of the players on the parents' whim (roughly a mere 10,000 for the year). |
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