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Japan, women and a better life
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kdynamic



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anh wrote:
I sorta mentioned this before but what about western women that AREN'T caucasian? There's tons! How do guys see Latino girls, western girls that are of Asian descent, black girls, middle eastern etc. And what about girls that don't fit the normal stereotypes, aka super tall girls, curvy girls, girls who are different for whatever reason. I myself am mixed and even though I already have a boyfriend with no intent of breaking up, the issue itself interests me. I actually wrote a paper about Japanese people marrying non-Japanese for a class. Cool


To be honest, I have found that non-white women in Japan are somewhat rare. There are MANY women from other Asian countries (Philipines, China, etc) and many Brazilian, Peruvian and other south american women. There are also many Pakistanis and other nationalities too (although most Muslim women who come here seem to already be married). I have met many africans (african-africans) in Japan but they have all been men. Women from Brazil or the Philipines etc, however, are in a different cultural and social context than those from the US/UK/Aus/etc. I think it's apples and oranges to include them in a discussion of the dating scene most people on this board (most being English teachers) would encounter in Japan. So, once you limit the conversation to US/UK/etc women of african/middle eastern/latina descent... well like I said, I think they are kind of rare.

My guess would be that latinas would be seen as white, and perhaps middle eastern people as well. Any american with light skin would be considered white. I have run into issues with this because I have light skin but don't consider myself white. Japanese people usually just don't make the same ethnic distinctions we do. We have grown up exposed to the cultural and physiological differences in various ethnic subcultures in western countries, but Japanese people ususally just aren't sensitized to them. There is an overwhelming stereotype here that all Americans are either white (blue eyes, christians background, the whole package) or black (hip hop and that whole package) and there is no gray area.
However there IS a big hip hop subculture here, and lots of Japanese people (men and women) are very interested in African-American culture. Things like salsa and tango have also contributed to an awareness and interest in latino culture. How minorities for western countries are seen by the Japanese will vary a lot depending on who you're talking to.

To relate it specifically to the topic at hand, Japanese men are saturated by the media with images of attractive causcasion american and european women, and many of them develop a strong attraction because of this. Like I have mentioned before, it's considered a huge status symbol and 'kakkoii' to have a western girlfriend. But the media is remiss when it comes to displaying the reality of the diversity of women in western countries. I think media portrayal of all americans as blonde and blue eyed has had a big effect.

That said, things that you see as being non-typical might, actually, be lost on Japanese people. EVERYTHING about you will be so foriegn and exotic that your skin being a little darker or your hair being curly will just be a drop in the bucket of the overall impression of exotic space alien. hahah. And the non-white western girls I have met here seem to have no problems with the dating scene that white girls don't have.
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Sherri and kdynamic raise valid points; as guys we really don't know. Based on foreign women I have spoken to in Japan, my own feelings are mixed. If we are looking at the actual number of marriages, it's rare indeed that a Japanese man marries a Western women (the majority of them marry Chinese, Filipino, and Korean wives), in contrast with the number of Japanese women who marry Western men. But remember, we are primarily talking about foreign women dating in Japan in this thread.
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Sherri



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how many western (US, Canada, UK, Oz, NZ etc) guys are married to Japanese women? I know that there are about 1,000 western female contributers to an email list I belong to for women married to Japanese men (mainly living in Japan). There are other organizations too with some cross membership, and some members are just in serious relationships--not married.

Message to girls coming to Japan, if you want to date Japanese guys, there are many opps out there, don't be put off by the nay-sayers!

Best
Sherri
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kdynamic



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaijinalways wrote:
we are primarily talking about foreign women dating in Japan in this thread.

Actually, I believe this thread was originally about how stupid some western guys are when it comes to dating Asian women... the case in point being the original poster! Go read the first few pages of this thread before it changed direction.
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry KD, I meant the recent part of the thread.

As to the %s for marriage Sherri;

http://www.glocom.org/special_topics/social_trends/20021112_trends_s16/index.html

http://www.kanai.net/weblog/archive/2004/04/02/06h50m11s


Min. of Health & Welfare nationwide figures for 2000


Total marriages: 798,138, of which:
Japanese husband-Foreign wife: 28,326
Foreign husband-Japanese wife: 7,937
total mixed marriages: 36,263 or 4.5% percent

Origin of non-Japanese spouses:

Foreign-born wife:
China 34.9%
Philippines 26.5
Korea 21.9%
Thai 7.5%
Brazil 1.3%
USA 0.7%
Other 7.1%


Foreign-born husband:
Korea 31.6%
USA 18.7%
China11.1%
Brazil 3.5%
UK 3.1%
Other 32%


Only 163 of marriages in 2002 of Japanese men were with Americans.


http://whatjapanthinks.com/2005/11/29/international-marriage-still-means-japanese-man-and-asian-woman/


Husband Japanese, wife foreign

Nationality of wife 1985 1990 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003
South or North Korea 3,622 8,940 4,521 6,214 6,188 5,353 5,318
China 1,766 3,614 5,174 9,884 13,936 10,750 10,242
Philippines n/a n/a 7,188 7,519 7,160 7,630 7,794
Thailand n/a n/a 1,915 2,137 1,840 1,536 1,445
USA 254 260 198 202 175 163 156
UK n/a n/a 82 76 93 85 65

Brazil n/a n/a 579 357 347 284 295
Peru n/a n/a 140 145 142 126 139
Others 2,096 7,212 990 1,792 2,091 2,030 2,427

Wife Japanese, husband foreign

Nationality of husband 1985 1990 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003
South or North Korea 2,525 2,721 2,842 2,509 2,477 2,378 2,235
China 380 708 769 878 793 814 890
Philippines n/a n/a 52 109 83 104 117
Thailand n/a n/a 19 67 55 45 62
USA 876 1,091 1,303 1,483 1,416 1,488 1,529
UK n/a n/a 213 249 267 317 334

Brazil n/a n/a 162 279 243 231 265
Peru n/a n/a 66 124 135 137 125
Others 662 1,080 1,514 2,239 2,286 2,407 2,601

Sorry the table figures don't match up so well after I copied it over.

So for 2003, we're looking at 1863 (US/UK) marriages with Japanese women versus 221 (US/UK) marriages with Japanese men. That looks about 7.5 to one in favor of the Western men.

My apologies to Canadian, S. African, Australian, and New Zealand partners. If you can read Japanese, the second link above also has an excel link in Japanese and this may add details that are missing for some nationalities.
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Jon22



Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ripslyme wrote:
furiousmilksheikali wrote:
Jon22: "gaijins"?

"coloured"?


heh - I was looking to see if he wrote "noble savage" anywhere in that, but sadly did not.


something i wrote?

if i offended anyone with the way i worded my post...i apologise...but please dont dwell on it too much.

and yes i know gaijins means non japanese ..so excuse my once in a life time racial error

so put away the swords some of you, im sure you got my general picture...right?
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MyTy



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the best of both worlds when I'm in Japan/Asia. My mother is Swedish and my Dad is black Brazilian/Chinese. (We're Canadian). I can blend in pretty much anywhere worth visiting on the planet. I date the J girls who don't like white guys, the J girls who don't like black guys and the J girls who like both. I can pick and choose and this goes for Korea and any other place in Asia as well. Don't get me started about the hotties in Korea.

I have dated a few girls that come from very traditional wealthy families. Sometimes it's those girls whose parents are the most strict or traditional and it can be difficult to get in that 'inner circle of trust' as Robert DeNiro put it. "I got my eyes on you Focker" Of course it can work the other way too. Some uneducated fathers can be pretty ignorant. I wish you luck meeting the father of a girl who is from Hiroshima. It's about a 50/50 shot of amicability.

I'm dating a girl who comes from a wealthy family complete with lineage. The Prince recently presented her father with the most prestigious yellow ribbon award for engineering. His company is the oldest environmental engineering corporation in Japan. The cute thing is I met her online from Canada and she waited for me to come to Japan. She's well known too. She was a former sports TV journalist from Tokyo of all things. She doesn't like going to clubs and bars because the Japanese people recognize her and talk about her.

There are millions of easy hot J girls. All the nampas can have them. I don't want my jimmy to break and be chewing my fingernails for days after. I stick to the conservative girls who have real jobs or lifelong students. I like the cool artsy girls from Osaka as well.

You won't find the prettiest and classiest girls walking around Shibuya with cigarette in hand waiting for some Canuck, Yankee, Kiwi, Aussie or Brit and they don't hit the clubs either. Infact the best girls have never even been with more than maybe 2 guys let alone a gaijin.

Regarding the other post. I have a lot of Japanese guy friends and they definitely would like to date a non Japanese. They don't care if she's white. It just happens that most female gaijins besides immigrants are white. Any girl who is not Japanese and pretty is on their list.

Gaijins and "yellow cabs" are a penny a dozen. What's the old saying? It's quality not quantity.
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furiousmilksheikali



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon22 wrote:
ripslyme wrote:
furiousmilksheikali wrote:
Jon22: "gaijins"?

"coloured"?


heh - I was looking to see if he wrote "noble savage" anywhere in that, but sadly did not.


something i wrote?

if i offended anyone with the way i worded my post...i apologise...but please dont dwell on it too much.

and yes i know gaijins means non japanese ..so excuse my once in a life time racial error

so put away the swords some of you, im sure you got my general picture...right?


Not a problem and I wasn't having a go at you. Usually the plural of "gaijin" is simply "gaijin" though.

As for "coloured", well... I'm sure it was part of everyday speech circa 1953 but it's a bit worn these days and not usually the preferred nomenclature.

Just a friendly tip, the swords are still in their scabbards.
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furiousmilksheikali



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MyTy wrote:
Gaijins and "yellow cabs" are a penny a dozen. What's the old saying? It's quality not quantity.


"gaijins"?

"yellow cabs"?
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canuck



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

furiousmilksheikali wrote:
MyTy wrote:
Gaijins and "yellow cabs" are a penny a dozen. What's the old saying? It's quality not quantity.


"gaijins"?

"yellow cabs"?


Gaijin = foreigners
Yellow cab = Japanese girls that take anyone for a ride, often on the first date.
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furiousmilksheikali



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuck wrote:
furiousmilksheikali wrote:
MyTy wrote:
Gaijins and "yellow cabs" are a penny a dozen. What's the old saying? It's quality not quantity.


"gaijins"?

"yellow cabs"?


Gaijin = foreigners
Yellow cab = Japanese girls that take anyone for a ride, often on the first date.


Who let Einstein loose?
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canuck



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

furiousmilksheikali wrote:
canuck wrote:
furiousmilksheikali wrote:
MyTy wrote:
Gaijins and "yellow cabs" are a penny a dozen. What's the old saying? It's quality not quantity.


"gaijins"?

"yellow cabs"?


Gaijin = foreigners
Yellow cab = Japanese girls that take anyone for a ride, often on the first date.


Who let Einstein loose?


When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
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harlemknight



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuck wrote:
furiousmilksheikali wrote:
canuck wrote:
furiousmilksheikali wrote:
MyTy wrote:
Gaijins and "yellow cabs" are a penny a dozen. What's the old saying? It's quality not quantity.


"gaijins"?

"yellow cabs"?


Gaijin = foreigners
Yellow cab = Japanese girls that take anyone for a ride, often on the first date.


Who let Einstein loose?


When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.


who let Eric the King loose?
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Venti



Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Kanto, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MyTy wrote:
I have the best of both worlds when I'm in Japan/Asia. My mother is Swedish and my Dad is black Brazilian/Chinese. (We're Canadian). I can blend in pretty much anywhere worth visiting on the planet. I date the J girls who don't like white guys, the J girls who don't like black guys and the J girls who like both. I can pick and choose and this goes for Korea and any other place in Asia as well. Don't get me started about the hotties in Korea.

I have dated a few girls that come from very traditional wealthy families. Sometimes it's those girls whose parents are the most strict or traditional and it can be difficult to get in that 'inner circle of trust' as Robert DeNiro put it. "I got my eyes on you Focker" Of course it can work the other way too. Some uneducated fathers can be pretty ignorant. I wish you luck meeting the father of a girl who is from Hiroshima. It's about a 50/50 shot of amicability.

I'm dating a girl who comes from a wealthy family complete with lineage. The Prince recently presented her father with the most prestigious yellow ribbon award for engineering. His company is the oldest environmental engineering corporation in Japan. The cute thing is I met her online from Canada and she waited for me to come to Japan. She's well known too. She was a former sports TV journalist from Tokyo of all things. She doesn't like going to clubs and bars because the Japanese people recognize her and talk about her.

There are millions of easy hot J girls. All the nampas can have them. I don't want my jimmy to break and be chewing my fingernails for days after. I stick to the conservative girls who have real jobs or lifelong students. I like the cool artsy girls from Osaka as well.

You won't find the prettiest and classiest girls walking around Shibuya with cigarette in hand waiting for some Canuck, Yankee, Kiwi, Aussie or Brit and they don't hit the clubs either. Infact the best girls have never even been with more than maybe 2 guys let alone a gaijin.

Regarding the other post. I have a lot of Japanese guy friends and they definitely would like to date a non Japanese. They don't care if she's white. It just happens that most female gaijins besides immigrants are white. Any girl who is not Japanese and pretty is on their list.

Gaijins and "yellow cabs" are a penny a dozen. What's the old saying? It's quality not quantity.


As for the girl you're dating. You know, the one from the family complete with lineage? I'm sure her father'd be very happy to know that his daughter is dating some clueless fool who knows so little about Japanese that he says "gaijins" instead of gaijin.

But really, isn't the truth something else? Your dates with Japanese girls don't really go further than online chats, do they? You can admit it. There's no shame. And, if one of those chat sessions is particularly arousing, make sure to lock your bedroom door so your mother doesn't walk in on you. Wink
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MyTy



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venti wrote:

As for the girl you're dating. You know, the one from the family complete with lineage? I'm sure her father'd be very happy to know that his daughter is dating some clueless fool who knows so little about Japanese that he says "gaijins" instead of gaijin.

I'm a clueless fool because I have a habit of adding an 's' to gajin? I guess all the foreigners studying in western countries who misspell English words are clueless fools too. I'm sure there is one word or one cultural aspect of etiquette that you have a habit of being incorrect about even though you know what is correct. If not then I guess you are perfect. Being new to this forum I've already noticed that there seems to be no shortage of know it all members who are quick to criticize people who may not be grammarians of the Japanese language. Grow up. In addition who said I care what her father thinks? We got on the subject of dating girls and this is my experience.

Quote:
But really, isn't the truth something else? Your dates with Japanese girls don't really go further than online chats, do they? You can admit it. There's no shame. And, if one of those chat sessions is particularly arousing, make sure to lock your bedroom door so your mother doesn't walk in on you. Wink
You must be the psychologist of the bunch.

My mother doesn't live in Japan Wink

And...if my chat sessions don't go further than online why would I be worried about what her father thinks? Seems you contradicted yourself there.

Maybe it's just that you're middle aged and keep getting shot down online once girls meet you and realize that you look nothing like your photo from 1995. If you're married then congratulations to your wife. She's with a self proclaimed know it all. I chat online almost everyday and about 25% of my dates originate online. So what.

I think this avatar suits you better.

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