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What about your retirement?
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MamaOaxaca



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Mixteca, Oaxaca

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Justin!

I thought I'd have one child. I like the idea of one child per couple. My husband likes the idea of three children per couple. Nature found us a conveniente compromise!

I don't think TEFL in general is full of people who are against families, I just think this website is more attractive to/used by the fluttering non settler types.
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SueH



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 1022
Location: Northern Italy

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Hall wrote:
So, why not invest in a FAMILY, who can look after you while you are old and grey?


I presumed JH was being ironic but what a delightfully Victorian thought, marrying for dynastic, economic and self-interested reasons.

Son: Pater, I've decided to invest in a marriage.
Pater: Well done son. I hope she brings a nice dowry.
Son: Not very big but she is very healthy. Lots of children in her family, and she's young.
Pater: Even better. She can give you lots of sons and care for you in your old age.
Son: Just one thing though. Can you sack the maid, I'afraid I've got her up the duff.
Pater: What makes you think it was you?
etc etc

I'm afraid I didn't think the post merited a serious reply...
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John Hall



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sidjameson wrote:
How many more people do you want living on earth John Hall?

Sorry, I know its a rant, but J Hall's attitude really gets to me. Unless of course he ment to have 2 kids, but I cant see how 2 kids in a developing country would be a secure form of retirement.


You got it all wrong, sidjameson. I married a woman who already had four children from a previous marriage. I have no children of my own. So, I haven't contributed to the population problem in the world. Instead, I am helping out a family that otherwise would have probably ended up in the street.

Right on, Justin Trullinger! It is a matter of who is consuming more rather than who is having more children.

And, to borrow MamaOaxaca's phrase, the reason why so many people in TEFL are worried about their retirement is because they are "fluttering non settler types" (drifters?) who have no family, no savings, and therefore no future.

Since many of us will have trouble saving for retirement, why not settle down, get married, grow roots somewhere, have a family that really cares about you and that you really care about? Money is an important part of retirement, but it isn't the only part. If you really take care of people who need you, and they are good people, they will take care of you in the future. Smile
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John Hall



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SueH wrote:
I presumed JH was being ironic but what a delightfully Victorian thought, marrying for dynastic, economic and self-interested reasons...

I'm afraid I didn't think the post merited a serious reply...


SueH: you posted while I was in the middle of writing my post.

I never got married for the sake of any type of Victorian reasoning. Actually, what I did was all together wrong and nutty. I fell madly in love with a Costa Rican woman without full-time employment, and yet with four daughters. No TEFL'er should ever do this. It just sounds like a financial disaster. Love is entirely irrational. Smile Strangely enough though, things have started to work out financially, although it has been pretty rough going for me.

And you have also missed Gordon's point: supporting a family is one of the most unselfish things a person can do. Okay, maybe self-interest and selfishness are not the same thing. However, everybody has a certain self-interest that they cannot escape. It's intrinsic for all human beings.
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dajiang



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 663
Location: Guilin!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i havent read the entire thread, so ill just answer the question since it is an interesting one for me as Ive just been looking into that same thing.

in my country (Holland) everyone's got a pension fund that is more or less automatically maintained by your employer. however, when your not working in Holland itself, there wont be any employer to put money into the fund, so then you can opt to do that yourself.

Basically im going to be paying about 500 euros a year to maintain my pension fund and stay entitled to a full Dutch pension when im 65. (the 500 is based on an estimated salary that you make, which (in China) is low, so id have to pay the miminum amount)

I dont know how this works in whereever you guys are from, but its probably similar to this.

Dajiang
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SueH



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 1022
Location: Northern Italy

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="John Hall"]
SueH wrote:
I never got married for the sake of any type of Victorian reasoning. Actually, what I did was all together wrong and nutty. I fell madly in love with a Costa Rican woman without full-time employment, and yet with four daughters.


Ah, now that's more like it! Smile
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Justin Trullinger



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish it were so, Dajiang.

But it takes a country with a well developed welfare state for this to happen.

I can't pay into the US social security system, unless I work there.

Anyway, benefits are tied to contributions, so if I paid five hundred a year, I'd get jack *beep*.


Not that I figure it will be solvent by the time I reach retirement...

The option of maintaining a government supported/mandated pension back home isn't an option for many of us.

Come to think of it, it's getting harder and harder back home.

Best,
Justin
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shuize



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Jones wrote:
Quote:
Although procreation is considered a fundamental right in the United States

Actually the United States was in the vanguard of forced sterilization and the Germans took their eugenics policy from the US Congress. Have you never heard the famous quote from Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes "Three generations of idiots is enough" when the Court backed up the Virginia governments policy of forcibly sterilizing those who got bad marks on its intelligence tests?

Actually, the quote is: "Three generations of imbeciles are enough." Buck v. Bell (1927). When trying to show someone up, it's best to get the quote right.
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gugelhupf



Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Jabotabek

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We Brits can pay a voluntary National Insurance contribution which preserves the right to a basic state pension at age 65 (used to be 60 for women). I continue to do so even though the basic Uk pension is very meagre, but it might be worth something if I retire somewhere where living is cheap. Apart from that I pay into a low-risk-but-poor-return long notice account in the UK using my mother's home address, and I have a former company pension that continues to earn interest until I'm old enough to draw it.

Assuming mother pops her clogs before I do I will probably have to think about switching to an 'offshore' savings account that I can operate safely from a foreign address.

I'm hoping to retire to Malaysia eventually, though that is about 20 years away for now.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many generations of pedants are enough? :)

Mea culpa; I'd typed the erroneous phrase into Google and quite a few links to Buck v Bell came up, so I presumed they were correct.

As both 'imbecile' and 'idiot' were used as technical terms at the time, the mistake is not one of choosing the wrong synonym.
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bigbadsuzie



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 265
Location: Turkish privatesector

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming one lives to reach retirement age ,what quality of life can you expect without kids or savings to support you ?
As long as you have one or the other life should be tolerable .If you have both then unless you throw money around carelessly life could be sweet .If you have savings ,property, and investments plus a U.K pension as well as a Turkish one and no kids or dependants then why am I worried about retirement ?
Maybe I think I won't live long enough to spend it !
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is: Ultimately, we're all dead men. Sadly, we cannot choose when, but�we can decide how we meet that end, so that we are remembered�as men.
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Jetgirly



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 741

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigbadsuzie wrote:
Assuming one lives to reach retirement age ,what quality of life can you expect without kids or savings to support you ?
As long as you have one or the other life should be tolerable


My parents didn't support their own parents when my grandparents were very old. Consequently, I wouldn't be inclined to support my own parents (above and beyond basic food, clothing and shelther should they ever experience some kind of freak financial crisis and fall into poverty). If you're having kids with the expectation that they're going to look after you, you'd better lead by example.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We Brits can pay a voluntary National Insurance contribution which preserves the right to a basic state pension at age 65[...]

I'm hoping to retire to Malaysia eventually, though that is about 20 years away for now.
The problem is that the pension will stay at the level you first draw it at, and you will not get any increase for inflation unless you live in an EU country. So for scot47 who is going to retire to Bulgaria in 2020 (or at the age of 2020 - his intentions aren't that clear) it is worth it because Bulgaria will be in the EU.

I have an aged aunt who lives in South Africa and although her husband contributed for 45 years, she gets something like a fiver a week. Similar cases went to the House of Lords, but they backed up the government, and as overseas residents can't vote they can starve.
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furiousmilksheikali



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deicide wrote:
All I can say is: Ultimately, we're all dead men. Sadly, we cannot choose when, but�we can decide how we meet that end, so that we are remembered�as men.


Unless one happened to be a woman I suppose.

Are you quoting John Maynard Keynes perchance?
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