Job Discussion Forums

[Malsol]

Milo is 51, in China less than one year, married a young local, demanded his school added accalaids to his contract, demanded other things that upset his boss and then got fired.

Ran here for help. Several of us told him to do an old fashioned Western sit-in. He did it and he got the desired results.

I sent him 1,000 rmb because he claimed to be down to his last few hundred rmb and a serious money dispute with his school. I helped him, or that is what I believed, over a rough time. Apparently he did not need the help after all. I did not expect to be paid back under the existing or perceived to be existing situation.

Now that I know he never needed the money, I think it fair that he return it.

I wanted nothing more to do with him because I realized he misunderstands everyone on just about every thing. The world according to Milo does not exist. I was also offended by his religious remarks that, as one poster noted, was biting the hand that fed him.

Someone asks how could he run off and leave his new family in China?

If he had stayed in China he would have gotten in deeper trouble sooner than later. He could not take them with him. Rather than change his attitude and adjust to China, he cut and ran. He claims to be a Christian. If that is the Christian way, I want nothing to do with that religion.

Milo is lucky. Another who came to China with his kind of attitude was killed. (Darren Russell www.whiterabbitsmom.org/)

Milo, you are better off out of China. You should never have come in the first place.

Your wife will manage without you. She did before you came and she will now that you have gone. You will never bring her to the USA. I know that, you know that and she knows that. The process will take five years. Your lust initiated love will not stay the course. Betcha!

[Malsol]

I have been away on a vacation of sorts. 21 days of first class treatment in a 3rd class Chinese hospital. The stories I may share .... Dave may not allow all of them!

[Joe C.]

[Joe C.]

[milo baggins]

Milo is 51, in China less than one year, married a young local, demanded his school added accalaids to his contract, demanded other things that upset his boss and then got fired.

Just what "accalaids" did I demand? And what else did I demand? Let us know, please.

Ran here for help. Several of us told him to do an old fashioned Western sit-in. He did it and he got the desired results.

I sent him 1,000 rmb because he claimed to be down to his last few hundred rmb and a serious money dispute with his school. I helped him, or that is what I believed, over a rough time. Apparently he did not need the help after all. I did not expect to be paid back under the existing or perceived to be existing situation.

When the need was expressed, I did not know if we were going to be able to eat for more than a few more days. I did not know if we would get anything from the school or the agency. I did not misrepresent the situation in any way. The fact that the school ended up paying us something does not change that.

Now that I know he never needed the money, I think it fair that he return it.

While it turned out that I didn't need it at that time, it was needed shortly thereafter. Malsol apparently is picky about the details of a need. I offered to pay him back when he first offered it and he said that would not be necessary. Now, I have agreed to return the money as soon as I am able to do so. I have asked him how he would like me to do that.

I wanted nothing more to do with him because I realized he misunderstands everyone on just about every thing. The world according to Milo does not exist.

Malsol, unlike you, up until now I have gone out of my way to not point out your errors in understanding. Reading this latest, I am now convinced that it is not misunderstanding on your part, but a purposeful desire to distort and malign. Some here, you among them, have made a point of my age. How old are you? My guess is quite a bit younger. At any rate, I think it tragic that you have become such a bitter and cynical man. But that is no excuse for your dishonesty.

I was also offended by his religious remarks that, as one poster noted, was biting the hand that fed him.

Any objective reading of what I wrote would see that there is no intent to offend or hurt you in any way. You yourself demonstrated that when you sent me the pm about it right after I submitted it. If you can't accept what was written in the spirit in which it was written, then that is your loss. It has yet to be explained how it in any way "bit" you.

Someone asks how could he run off and leave his new family in China?

If he had stayed in China he would have gotten in deeper trouble sooner than later. He could not take them with him. Rather than change his attitude and adjust to China, he cut and ran. He claims to be a Christian. If that is the Christian way, I want nothing to do with that religion.

Milo is lucky. Another who came to China with his kind of attitude was killed. (Darren Russell www.whiterabbitsmom.org/)

Milo, you are better off out of China. You should never have come in the first place.

Your wife will manage without you. She did before you came and she will now that you have gone. You will never bring her to the USA. I know that, you know that and she knows that. The process will take five years. Your lust initiated love will not stay the course. Betcha!

You say that the world according to Milo does not exist. Then you show no compuncture against fabricating the foregoing. I don't know which is saddest: the hypocracy, the cynicism, the bitterness, or the malice. I wrote what I wrote to you in the past because I cared about you. It is obvious now that you never really cared about me or my wife. Or about anyone else on this site. I truly pity you.


Come on, MaTroll, let this thread die in dignity.

Any dignity in this thread has long been overshadowed. And while I'm quite sure that everyone here is familiar with the term, I'm equally sure that many here have no idea what it means. [/i]

[Malsol]

Milo thanks for proving my point.

It is always everyone else's fault. Great!

I never suggested that you mislead, lied or misstated anything. You are so darn quick to defend yourself that you do not stop and listen to what is being said.

[Malsol]

Milo you came to China to work illegally. You admitted that in your very first post.

You had no college education and you admitted that.

After you were on the job one month you demanded a revised contract. Remember?

[Malsol]

BTW Milo - I have no regrets trying to help you.

I received more than one PM suggesting that you did not deserve any help. That was besides the point. It wasn't a matter of deserving, it was a matter of need.

[Malsol]

OP

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: My contract has been broken - any advise?

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Here's some background: I was hired to teach in China for a year. The organization that hired me (I'll call them the USCC), knowing that I had no college degree, had me get an "F" visa (business visa), but did not tell me that it was technically illegal for to teach in China under that visa. When I arrived at the school in a small town in China, I was asked what university I had gone to. I told them I had not gone to a university. Nothing was said about this at that time.
A contract was signed, and about a month later, a revised contract was signed. As I had been teaching for a month, I asked that they insert a paragraph stating that they were satisfied with my performance as a teacher at that point. They did this and assured me that they were indeed satisfied.
My contract stated that I was responsible for teaching up to 20 classes a week. After being there about a month, I was asked to be in my office when I was not actually teaching. The reason given was that I should be available to students that wanted to see me for extra help. I wrote a memo saying that I was willing to do so for the students' sake, but that it was voluntary time given and I was not being compensated for it. A few weeks went by and no students ever came to the office. I had no official duties to do, and as I was teaching in every class of the first and second year students, I had to prepare a new topic only once every two weeks, so I had little to do. I had a better computer in my apartment and more items available, so I was able to accomplish more from my apartment than from my office.
One day, a student came to me and asked if he could meet with me in my office for extra help with his english. I said that would be fine and had him give me his name and class. I brought that to the teacher who was the go-between for me and the director and was told that the students were not allowed to see me in my office. I was not happy about this, nor with the dishonesty. I contacted the USCC and told them about it and said that I did not wish to stay in the office during my non-class time. The representative there contacted the school, then told me that she had spoken to the school and there should be no problem about it. So after that I stayed in my apartment during non-class time. Nothing was said about that by the school.
Two weeks ago, I was told that I would no longer be teaching after the middle of December (my contract was specifically through the end of January). I was told that the students needed to prepare for exams and that this was the usual procedure for the school in regard to foreign teachers, that none of them taught beyond the middle of December. I asked if the school intended to honor the contract and if I would be paid. I asked that a few times of two different "go-between" teachers, and never received an answer.
I finally wrote a letter saying the if they paid me what they owed me through the end of the contract, then I would accept 1,000 rmb less than the total amount owed and leave the apartment early so that they would not have heating and electric costs (the apartment was for the use of foreign teachers only and was vacant when there were none). I was told later that the Director and the Headmaster were angry when they read my letter, and that since I would not be teaching, they did not owe me anything. I was further told that since I did not have a college degree, the contract was no good. Understand that they knew at the time they signed the contract that I had no college degree. At this point, it was brought up that they were not happy about my not being in my office during non-class time.
I am told that I will be paid for the time I have taught in December, but I have already been told that it will be less than I am due. I have contacted the USCC, and they are "looking into it". The school wants to know when I will be out of the apartment, and have hinted about deducting from what they owe me for further heat and electric use. They have said that they will pay me my final amount when I am leaving.
I wish to state that my experience has not been all bad. The school was very helpful to me at the beginning of my stay in certain areas. I have very much enjoyed the class times with the students.
I am 51 years old, and have had a significant amount of time teaching classes to adults in a "lay" position. This teaching experience was what was accepted by the USCC in lieu of a college degree. Again, I had no idea that there would be any issue in that regard.
Finally, let me say to those who are considering teaching in China: In the summer of 2006, new laws were enacted to prevent anyone from working for pay in China without a "Z" visa, and though it has been a grey area for a long time, I would not recomment anyone coming without the "Z" visa and a college degree. Any input or advise from others here?

[milo baggins]

Malsol, let me put this as gently as I can. You are quick to point out perceived faults in others, but blind to the same things in yourself.

The school brought the revised contract to me and asked me to sign it. I requested that they include the aforesaid paragraph. They had no problem with that, then or later. That was not the cause of any of the difficulty.

I have not only "listened" to everything you have said, but tried to respond to things you said specifically, sometimes point by point. You almost never respond to questions or remarks, preferring to accuse and divert attention away from yourself. So who isn't "listening"?

Malsol, you have accused me of several things, many of which are false. I never said that you said that I lied. I said that you fabricated and distorted and were dishonest. I stand by those remarks.

[Malsol]

Ordinarily I would not post a PM but I think this is an exceptional situation so here is my PM to Milo and his reply interlineated in italics:

Early on I suggested that you were acting like a Wild West Cowboy in China. Maybe that was in your prior thread that has been locked.
Now, I believe that more than ever.
You have been working in China, illegally I might add, for less than one year, and already you have a local Chinese wife who you removed from her native Southwestern Province to a Northeastern Province.
We were married before I found out I was working illegally.
You blame the Chinese way of doing things for your problems. Or, you blame poor communications with your wife.
Can you give an example of where I actually blamed anyone where it was not valid? I'm very careful about blame.
I imagine she is half your age and her English is very poor.
I know what you're getting at here, and it's not valid.
You blame your school leaders but it was you who made demands on them and then insulted them. (Sort of like the way you insulted me after I did my best to help you.)
*Sigh* What demands did I put on the school leaders? And if you took what I wrote as insulting, I am truly sorry. It was not written in such a spirit.
In your original thread you posted your understanding of Chinese law as if it was gospel. In fact, you were dead wrong.
Interesting that no one else thinks so, on this site, or off. The American Embassy was the first to tell me that information and it has been confirmed independently by Chinese nationals I've spoken with. In addition, my wife showed me a government site online where it was stated clearly.
I strongly urged you to delete your religious message but you defiantly refused. You said you could take the heat and that you had not posted anything wrong.
I asked you to read the off topic thread "A Chinese Bank Transaction"
You said you would. Excuse me, but I never said that. This is the story of how much trouble I went to on your behalf. (Not a single word of appreciation from you.) I did express my appreciation to you in a personal message. I have absolutely no regrets in helping you in this time of need.
But, YOU ARE ACTING LIKE A WILD WEST COWBOY IN CHINA.
CHINA WILL NOT CHANGE TO SUIT YOU. AND IF YOU DO NOT ALLOW CHINA TO CHANGE YOU, YOUR TROUBLES ARE JUST BEGINNING.
Finally, I have to ask, are you really such a hostile person, or is it just an act you put on? And why? You do not come across like this in our personal messages. I am truly confused.

[Joe C.]

[Malsol]

[Joe C.]

[Malsol]

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:45 am Post subject:

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MISTAKES TO LEARN FROM:

Quote:
I asked that they insert a paragraph stating that they were satisfied with my performance as a teacher at that point.

I wrote a memo saying ....

I was not happy about this, nor with the dishonesty. I contacted the USCC and told them about it and said that I did not wish to stay in the office during my non-class time.

I asked that a few times of two different "go-between" teachers, and never received an answer.

I finally wrote a letter saying ....



AND FINALLY LET ME SAY TO YOU, THE FOLLOWING IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG INFORMATION.

Quote:
Finally, let me say to those who are considering teaching in China: In the summer of 2006, new laws were enacted to prevent anyone from working for pay in China without a "Z" visa, and though it has been a grey area for a long time, I would not recomment anyone coming without the "Z" visa and a college degree.


AND JUST THINK, NOW YOU HAVE MORE OF THAT VALUABLE "IN LIUE PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE" TO PUT ON YOUR RESUME.