Job Discussion Forums

[keepwalking]

Peru is politically stable! They will always vote for an idiot - how much more stable can you get!!

I also feel pretty safe here in Peru, despite two muggings. One was my fault - didn't take a taxi from a bus station - and the other was just pure bad luck. They came within two weeks of each other so I didn't feel particularly safe at that stage and I am certainly more careful now then I was then. One of the biggest dangers, I think, is complacency. I got too comfortable and forgot some basic rules. Now I am more aware, and always remind myself of the rules, and I feel fine.

[Guy Courchesne]

[matttheboy]

i think i mentioned this on a similar thread a while ago but i find it interesting when people say that they feel very safe where they are in south america and at the same time say that they have to take certain precautions so as nothing untoward happens to them. That means that they don't actually feel safe at all and have to alter their usual way of thinking and acting in order to make themselves believe that they feel safe.

Safety to me is not having to do anything act out of the ordinary. if i can't wear my watch on the street, can't take my credit cards out, can't stand around taking photos etc without fear of being robbed then i don't feel safe no matter what precautions i take to mitigate the risk.

The only concession i make in buenos aires is to try and call for a taxi whenever possible instead of catching on in the street, although i do the latter more. Otherwise, i talk on my phone, listen to my mp3, always carry cash and credit cards without the merest thought of it being an issue. I feel almost the same level of safety in Santiago de Chile, a little less perhaps but i wouldn't change how i normally act when i'm there.

Safety is not having to compromise your normal life.

Of course this doesn't mean than you should avoid places where you have to compromise-that'd mean you'd have very few places in the world to visit. Hell, some of the dodgiest places are some of the funnest...at least in my experience. Just that if safety is your top priority then you should go somewhere where you will be able to act in the same manner to which you're used to and not live in fear of being robbed etc for simply acting in your normal way.

[John Hall]

[lozwich]

[John Hall]

[Guy Courchesne]

[John Hall]

It's not just me. I know many other teachers who have been robbed here, and sometimes at knife- or gunpoint. The image of Costa Rica, and the one that is promoted to attract tourists, is that this is the Switzerland of Central America, a land where everything is "pura vida." Well things used to be that way maybe 15 years ago. Now every house in San Jose and La Meseta Central is protected by metal bars with coils of concertina wire on top. Neighbors don't know each other any more because everyone lives in their "cage." Nobody hangs out in the street like they do in Cuba. And when you have to walk, you don't carry anything valuable. San Jose has some very famous earring snatchers, hammer salesmen (buy this hammer that I have raised above your head), carjackers, and so on. I know this, because I have to walk on the streets every day.

Furthermore, the newspapers report more of the types of crimes that we hear about in other Latin American countries every day. We seem to be inheriting many of the crime problems of Colombia (narcotrafficking), and Central America (kidnapping, carjacking, gangs). I think it won't take long before we are just as bad as everybody else.

[Guy Courchesne]

Interesting how perspective creates impressions. You describe Mexico City fairly well (in describing San Jose) and from the outside looking in, one thinks unsafe. Lozwich has the idea right with adapting to the place you're in and then taking those adaptations for granted.

Bars on the windows, for example. I wonder if that makes you feel more safe or less safe? In Canada, we use electronic systems instead of the more visual deterrent of the bars, as you of course know. I wonder if it's simply seeing the difference that creates the impression? I see the same things every day here in Mexico City, and see the same sensational headlines.

I ask because I've always found the question interesting, being in a Latin American country that the world says I shouldn't be in. How a place like Mexico City can feel so much the opposite of what's popularly thought of it, from the distance. As others have written here as well...how Bogota, or Lima, or Ecuador can be safer than thought? I guess I'll take Costa Rica as the other side of the coin. A place never mentioned in popular media, never thought of as crime-ridden, but you say now it's the opposite? Media is a tricky beast...

[matttheboy]

i knew this had come up before http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=38286&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=patagonia&start=0

[cangringo]

In Vancouver you should be careful about flashing credit cards around and especially cash - for instance at a bank machine you want to be careful of who is around you and how much cash you withdraw. You also want to be careful of carrying cameras around and looking too touristy. It's become very dangerous in gastown - one of the most touristy areas in Vancouver - after dark. A lot of locals won't even go to the bars there anymore for fear of being involved in a shooting or getting mugged. OH and you should always check the machine for signs of a pin stealing device. We met an older couple who were wandering around gastown looking rather touristy that got mugged in broad daylight. Women being attacked while out jogging - in the early morning but still daylight.

You have to adjust anywhere you go and looking too touristy or really standing out will make you a target in most places. It doesn't mean you can't be safe without a few precautions and that's not a big stretch for me. I guess it's a pesonal thing. If you are walking around the downtown eastside at night in Vancouver you are pretty much asking for trouble.

I like having the bars on the window as opposed to an alarm but I lived in a building with alarms and bars on the window and the tenant below us moved out because her place was broken into on three different occasions and the police took over an hour to show up. I guess they were too busy harassing drunk teenagers at a party or some such. That was in Vancouver. The unfortunate thing about the bars was that they were screwed in from the outside - All the robbers had to do was pry off the bars...There are many stories like this from Vancouver and other cities like it. Living on the ground floor in a nice neighborhood in Vancouver pretty makes you a target.

It's all about perception I suppose. I feel safer having a dog here because most people are terrified of dogs. A lot of the dogs are trained to attack people they don't know. Is it a false sense of security? It's possible but I doubt it. Non one is getting through our bars without a lot of work and noise and we have made sure our neighbors know us as well as our neighborhood watch bicycle guy.

I guess my point is if you come from small town BC to Vancouver or Toronto, you are going to have to adjust for your own safety - does that mean you aren't safe...no.

mattheboy, I find your post very contradictory - because as lozwich said everyone has different views of what the normal life is. You have to compromise something wherever you go...and according to your post, there are not many places in the world that a person from my home town could go and feel safe...

[John Hall]

I don't think that this is a matter of perspective at all. It is a matter of risk. I cannot avoid danger entirely and I know that. So does most of the rest of the population of Costa Rica. I don't have a car, and so I have to wait at bus stops, which I know are risky at night. I have to walk to places where I must work because I have no other way to get to them.

I have lived in one of the most expensive and safest cities in the world: Kyoto, Japan. Now I can say that I am poor, and that one of the negative aspects of that is living without good security, not being able to avoid risks. I know that unless I can avoid the bus stops in high risk areas at night, that it will only be a matter of time before I am robbed again.

I can have as much street-sense as I want to. I can carry as little money and valuables as I want to. But I am still a target anyway. Everyone thinks I am an American loaded with cash because I do not look in any way like a Tico. About all I can do is hope and pray...

[Justin Trullinger]

I can't remember where you're from, Matttheboy. Safety meaning not having to change your usual routine at all may depend on that.

For me, when you move, you have to adapt. For example, I've known teachers in Quito who were unwilling to adapt to the fact of having to avoid isolated, unlit, streets at night. They were from Oregon, and obviously, they had some unpleasant experiences. You can't expect a south american capital to be like a small, north american town.

I'm from Independence, Iowa, USA. Where I could (and did) routinely leave the keys in my car. If I came to BA and did this, does that make BA unsafe if (when) my car disapears? Or does it make me a little silly for not realizing that I'm in a different place?

Best,
Justin

[cangringo]

John, I wasn't saying that you aren't a target just by being an outsider - I can say that after a few transito stops, I agree they think we are rich because we are Canadian as well. Just that to avoid being more of a target it's always a good idea not to make yourself more of one by looking touristy, flashing credit cards or cash etc.

On the perception comment - I guess I meant that towards mattheboy's comments of compromising for safety as well as the bars on the windows and alarms. I should have been more clear... I was just typing my thoughts as they came out.

And yes Justin - exactly

[John Hall]

I envy those of you who can avoid the risks. Unfortunately, I am not always able to.