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Omeo
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 245
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 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: flings & relationships |
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So there are some Japanese women who don't expect a serious relationship? How can you tell who's trying to bag a foreigner for life and who just wants to play?
Also, of those who want a serious relationship, how do you tell the difference between the ones who really do like the things you like and are therefore compatible with you and the ones who're just pretending to like what you like to make you happy? I 'spose you could make them tell you what they like first. Or you could tell them you're into something weird like peeing on each other and if they go for it, then they're probably kissing your ass.  |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Venti wrote: |
| What's with all the negative comments about Japanese girls? There are empty-headed bimbos in every country. Japan is no exception. |
I don't think people were outright bashing Japanese girls. A lot of people said that there were lots of great Japanese women. I think people were bashing the guys that repeatedly get themselves involved with bimbos and then are surprised at the result. People were bashing the OP and the girls he picked, not all Japanese girls.
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| I've never tried to have anything serious with the not-so-serious types; It's a waste of time and energy. We just had some good times; I moved on, they moved on. |
Yep, I can say the same for my dating life in Japan. It's fine to have fun. But you can't date the obviously not serious types and then blame the entire society of the country you're in when they turn out to be superficial (as the OP seemed to be doing). I think you understand this perfectly - unfortunately the OP did not.
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| I've had mostly positive experiences dating here and encourage anyone who has an interest in dating Japanese women to give it a try, if he (she?) hasn't already. |
If you're here in Japan, then of course, you have to jump in and give it a try. But the OP was talking about moving to Japan from another country expressly to date Japanese women. I think that's utterly misguided and stupid. Some people have these weird idealized notions about Japanese women (just like Japanese guys do about American women... it's the exoticism thing I guess), and those types deserve a wake-up call: there are lots of great women in Japan, and lots of not so great ones. Just like everywhere. That's pretty much what you (Venti) were saying, and I only wish every western guy kept that kind of perspective in mind. |
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24601
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| I don't think people were outright bashing Japanese girls. A lot of people said that there were lots of great Japanese women. I think people were bashing the guys that repeatedly get themselves involved with bimbos and then are surprised at the result. People were bashing the OP and the girls he picked, not all Japanese girls. |
You got it. I actually feel sorry for the exoticized J women. At least no one is going to marry me and assume that I will keep up the hot pants and hooker boots attire post childbirth. I am expected to end up with some cellulite eventually. I think it also must be a whole lot of pressure to always be so perfect. One of the best things I ever did here I think for my self esteem was to get a gym membership, which includes spa (nekkid) privileges. Despite what many men will propogate (and it is not near as bad here as on say, GP) no, not all J women look like "nubile 18 year olds" for life. They show signs of age and wear and tear too, and let me tell you a good supportive bra and a wonderbuttbra on a thin body can do absolute wonders when she has clothes on.
So yeah, J women are normal women just like everywhere else. They age and they get mad and they can be total biatches and they can be sweet as sin and yes their shiat stinks too and some can have depth and meaning and some lay like a starfish and scream OMG it's SO BIG and have G guys think that = great sex and some are excellent lovers and some are career minded and serious and some just want LV all day and ketai all night. (I will give that in general, on the whole, J men and women both are slimmer than western counterparts, and both genders also on the whole pay far more attention to personal grooming. NO ONE wears freaking sweat pants and oversize t-shirts here unless they're homeless).
I just get extraordinarily frustrated with men who exoticize the J woman, come here to get her, go on about how their woman dresses sexy and is not an opinionated biatch like a western woman, and then are ALL SHOCKED she can't have a conversation about sartre or is maybe not the world's best housewife and mom once they get married. Like, really now? I mean I'd say the same thing about guys who marry playboy bunnies and then are all shocked she's not the best date to take to a political dinner party (can't dress appropriately, can't discuss current events and world issues at an intelligent level).
| Quote: |
| Yep, I can say the same for my dating life in Japan. It's fine to have fun. But you can't date the obviously not serious types and then blame the entire society of the country you're in when they turn out to be superficial (as the OP seemed to be doing). I think you understand this perfectly - unfortunately the OP did not. |
Yup. I've met a lot of fabulous J women here. Smart, attractive, fit, sexy, intelligent women. Who can't get a date. Why? They aren't wearing hot pants and hooker boots. They don't bleach their hair and have texas barbie look going on. They walk properly instead of on the side of their foot (if you don't know what I mean you haven't been paying attention). And worst sin of all? They are over 30. (I have counselled them to lie about this since white people age like crap and most asians could knock 5-10 years off and we'd never know). Beautiful sexy smart women who would love to have good conversations and yes ARE interested in sex (in fact, don't want to marry a J man because of what happens in Japanese marriages post wedding!) and want a good sex life but well, aren't the ketai giggly party girl type. So no one even gives them a second glance. Sad. Because those women are HOT. A lot of these women have started getting their papers in order to immigrate to the west in order to get a larger pool of G men to choose from.
| Quote: |
| Some people have these weird idealized notions about Japanese women (just like Japanese guys do about American women... it's the exoticism thing I guess), and those types deserve a wake-up call: there are lots of great women in Japan, and lots of not so great ones. Just like everywhere. That's pretty much what you (Venti) were saying, and I only wish every western guy kept that kind of perspective in mind. |
Yup. You got it. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Wow 24601, if I were to go on probability alone, I would have to guess that you are one of the following:
1) female
2) Asian-american/british/canadian/aussie
3) not in Japan
4) long out of your 20s
If you're a young white/black guy in Japan, then congratulations, you've just proved yourself a total anomaly. Especially on the internet I never, ever hear guys talk about all this as sanely and reasonably as you just did. Too bad there is no emoticon for "pleasantly shocked." Maybe this one comes close:  |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| If you're a young white/black guy in Japan, then congratulations, you've just proved yourself a total anomaly. |
Certainly has:
| 24601 wrote: |
| At least no one is going to marry me and assume that I will keep up the hot pants and hooker boots attire post childbirth. |
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johncanada24
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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About the whole Kawaii Japanese women look its great for advertising but
I agree with the fact that you should really find a women for personality.
Personality is # 1 in my books but then again there has to be some sort of physical attraction and it doesn't necessarily have to be the Cutesy look cause that will probably get VERY OLD. I've started to meet Japanese friends here in my home town and Sometimes i talk about this stuff. Personality by far is a better investment and is much healthier for your life in the long run. I would not be surprised if I'm limited to the women closer to 30 because most girls ( As I've been told by a native Japanese) are not mentally mature enough to get into a more serious relationship. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
| kdynamic wrote: |
| If you're a young white/black guy in Japan, then congratulations, you've just proved yourself a total anomaly. |
Certainly has:
| 24601 wrote: |
| At least no one is going to marry me and assume that I will keep up the hot pants and hooker boots attire post childbirth. |
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Actually, I just realized that that is no reason to suppose 24601 of being a woman. He or she didn't mention whose childbirth and if 24601 is a guy he wouldn't be the only anomaly on the board.
By the way, what is the problem with men finding 20-year-old bimbos in miniskirts and high boots attractive? They don't dress like that to look unattractive and arguing that men shouldn't think they are sexy is like arguing the laws of biology should be repealed. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
By the way, what is the problem with men finding 20-year-old bimbos in miniskirts and high boots attractive? They don't dress like that to look unattractive and arguing that men shouldn't think they are sexy is like arguing the laws of biology should be repealed. |
Nothing is wrong with it at all. Nothing is wrong with seeking out a little fun and enjoying what you find. There is nothing wrong with picking a bimbo for a date or a fling if that floats your boat.
What's wrong is to then expect something completely different from your miniskirted bimbo when you want to have a serious conversation, or a joint bank account, or a baby. And then what's really wrong is to be upset when you don't get what you want, and then decide that ALL women in a given country are a, b, and c, when in reality it's just all the women you picked. What's wrong is to date only the miniskirted bimbos, and then blame your relationship woes on everyone but yourself. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
By the way, what is the problem with men finding 20-year-old bimbos in miniskirts and high boots attractive? They don't dress like that to look unattractive and arguing that men shouldn't think they are sexy is like arguing the laws of biology should be repealed. |
Nothing is wrong with it at all. Nothing is wrong with seeking out a little fun and enjoying what you find. There is nothing wrong with picking a bimbo for a date or a fling if that floats your boat.
What's wrong is to then expect something completely different from your miniskirted bimbo when you want to have a serious conversation, or a joint bank account, or a baby. And then what's really wrong is to be upset when you don't get what you want, and then decide that ALL women in a given country are a, b, and c, when in reality it's just all the women you picked. What's wrong is to date only the miniskirted bimbos, and then blame your relationship woes on everyone but yourself. |
Okay, agreed. I had, in fact, forgotten the OP's griping. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's all good. I have had my share of dates and flings with people, ah, not intellectually well-matched for me just because I thought they were fun or attractive or I was just out to get some. Nothing wrong with that at all, in moderation. But if all you ever eat is cake and ice cream and never any meat and veggies, you're gonna get sick 
Actually, I feel like it's all to easy to get lulled into a string of flings with people you know aren't serious candidates for a real relationship for you, especially in Japan as someone who, to them, is exotic - meaning you can go out any night of the week and pull whoever catches your eye, if you don't exercise a little self restraint. I have been through that phase, but eventually I got tired of it, and realized I was getting too jaded about the whole dating scene and losing my sense of romance. So I told everyone I was causally dating but didn't really care about to take a hike, spent time with my friends and also taking care of myself, and lo and behold a few months later out of the blue someone who is a serious possibility for a real relationship and is a good match for me in all the important ways just walked into my life when I wasn't even looking.
I don't know if I am done playing (hey, I'm still young!) and I don't regret anything. Who knows what will happen with me and this new person? But I think the moral of the story is you have to be patient and keep some perspective if you want to meet quality people to date, instead of just getting with whoever's easy. |
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Venti
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Kanto, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Jeez, Kd.
You're like 22 or 23, right? You've got plenty of time. Sounds like you've already racked up some miles. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you're still young enough that, for you, the idea of becoming 30 conjures up images of becoming an old hag. Not true, dear. No need to get serious anytime soon, yo.
Anyway, take care. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, you sure know a lot about me having never even met or spoken to me , dear 
Anyway, like I said, who knows what will happen? I am not saying I am done playing... but at the same time I don't think I'll be 30 and single either 
And in any case, that's just my personal feeling. I don't think it really has any baring on this discussion of dating or not dating bimbos. |
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prlester
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon30 wrote: |
Oh man... to 'J' - look I'm fed up with goody two shoes apologisers for everything... I am an experienced guy - believe me or not, I don't care. I don't need to go do voluntary work or whatever to meet decent women. I have met them before, but rarely in this country. I meet the same kind of person all the time because I LIVE IN SEOUL! I don't generalize about women in general and I do check out a woman's values andpersonailty etc before getting involved. That's called 'GETTING TO KNOW SOMEONE." I do not have a chip on my shoulder. mayn of my female friends who are not Korean, do not have the traits I am complaining baout. Yes complaining, so kill me.
TRUST ME! In this country, or at least in this city, you CAN GENERALIZE!
Something I would never usually do and would have responded the same as you did had I never lived here to witness it. I am talking from experience not only my own, but a TON LOAD of other foriegn teachers I meet here. I have one friend who's Korean wife not only divorced him once her parents voiced their strong dissagreement, but abandoned the baby, left the baby with him and NEVER spoke to either of them again and never asks to see her kid. What we in the west call LOVE just doesn't exist the same here. They marry for money, aesthetics or just to be with someone.
My best friend who is a pretty decent looking guy, smart etc, gets told almost every weekend - "you are so cute and handsome, but you are not tall and strong, how could you look after me...?" One girl that was dating him for thee months, suddenly dumped him, never spoke to him again and then two months later she was married to an obese fifty year old man who had just happened to buy her a bar in Itaewon. Now, she may have borke up with my friend anyway, who knows, ut marrie dmonths afte rto a fat rich bald businessman... Bear in mind she is in her mid twenties and a real hottie, not as though she'd have problems attracting men...
Yes, there are goldiggers everywhere, but even MY KOREAN MALE FRIENDS SAY THE SAME AS I AM. They all know that that if you don't have a good job (maening highly paid) most girls don't want to know them. So they go for girls from the country. If you havent lived here as I donl;t think you have, than you wouldn't be aware of what KOREAN PEOPLE themselves are calling the "PRINCESS SICKNESS." It means all the young girls have started imagining that they are on some higher kind of level and act like they are untouchable. So guys look ofr more innocent types or girls from the country. In fact all my western friends who are married happilly to Korean girls - the girls are either from the country, don't have close relationships with their folks or are much older than them. You try finding a couple where the Korean girl is the same age as the Western guy and they are married with no major probs. Haven't seen it since I've been here.
Now another thing to chuck the spanner in the cogs of your PC nonsense would be several of my Korean Female Friends themselves telling me that Korean women are confused about men. Several have told me that they will not accet dates from guys they like, or will date them for a while and then not meet them anymore as they think GUYS LIKE THIS..!! One told me that if she likes a guy, they have to try SEVEN TIMES...! another said, if a guy she likes texts her, she wont reply for days as she thinks guys don't like girls that act otherwise. Quite obviously if a woman ignores your texts and turns you down several times, this will leave you thinking she's not interested.
Some of them are so clueless, that after a couple of dates one girl told me that her boyfriend had ignored her all night whilst dancing sexilly with and kissing one of her friends and another random girl in a club. when she went to sit down with them, they pushed her aside and ignored her. Then she aske me if that was okay behavior.... WTF!!!
I myself have asked Korean girls what they look for in a man and have been answered many times with simply "Tall." Now I'm not short myself so am not saying this out of some kind of insecurity complex or whatever.
I've even been told I am romantic and handsome, but I am not tall and strong too, so I should look for someone else. Sometimes I persist anyway if she's a bit fiesty and get laid out of it. So kill me. I mean, sure maybe being tall and strong is attractive, but it's the equivalent of guys only wanting barbie dolls.
One girl I was dating. We were in a club once and I had to use the bathroom. I come out of the bathroom and she's draped around some big tall guy on the dance floor, literally looking into his eyes like he's some kind of God. I go to them, and say 'hey, come on lets dance' trying to get her off him and she pushes me out of the way and ignores me. I tell him, I'm with her and he's all kind of 'well it looks like she doesn't want you now... ' She disregards me, so I leave the club. He obviously bows her out after a few minutes and she comes out looking for me and when I ask her about it, she acts like she doesn't even know what I'm talking about.
Whilst Kdynamic seems well meaning and very nice to be honest the only person who has responded with any degree of realism and honesty is in my opinion - Bozo Yoroshiku.
I can't stand PC blind optimist goody goodies. And don't waffle on about me being bitter, I'm not, I'm a well adjusted cynic who has no expectations from the world or people. These are all just observations written on a website. I'm not sat at home and work all the time beating myself up and obsessing about this, trust me. So b*llox to you for needing to believe that.
Some of what I've written above may seem extreme to you, or you may think I'm only mixing with a 'CERTAIN TYPE.' But I can assure you, you come here, spend enough time here and you will realise that is the main type. I actually have met guys (I dont agree with or condone this myself) who have been messed around by or been so frustrated with Korean girls that they actually don't respect then anymore and just sleep with them and use them.
Of course, If I spoke Korean and dated girls from different areas, sure it might be different.
And I know they have probs with their parents and dating foriegn guys and a lot of them have been treated like $%^& by western guys and all sorts of other stuff. My point is, whichever way, that is how it is here now. That is why I'm dissatisfied and why I was curious about info on the dating scene in tokyo / Osaka. Incedently I didn't get any feedback to that question at all. Just mostly a load of self righteous opinion, which was never asked for at all.
So, any guys out there with experience of dating in the two big Japanese cities...? I ask only about these two cities, as that is where i would live. And I know the money is less etc etc.....
Okay signing off - pissed off with dating scene in Korea and rightfuly so.
Don't have a chip on my shoulder and having a g'friend is not the be all and end all in life to me. Just observations of mine and the majority of the guys I know. |
from my experience with koreans in college, I'm not impressed. They are closed, cold and money-grubbing compared to Japanese. However, I think there is something at stake wiht your post.
I'm picking up a Napoleon complex here. You are in a country wiht some of hte smallest men in the world, deal with it.
Next, the behavior you're describing is radically different from any foreign girl I've met, that I'm guessing you are hanging out with the wrong crowd. The games, the pestering, the rapper craze, that sounds like an AMericanized Asian to me.
I didn't speak japanese near enough to meet non-bilingual women, but still met plenty of quality j-girls. You must be hanging out with the wrong people, or maybe Korea is just that messed up.
Mainland asians are more materialistic then japanese, at least with relationships, but I've dated Chinese in the U.S. and it wasn't as bad as your are describing.
One last point: even if the girls are lower quality in Korea, the fact that they speak ENglish, orders of magnitude more then j-girls, must open up a huge pool of potential datees. THough many english-speaking j-girls are great, many are also not as high quality as non-speakers. Though part of it is the party life style expats have, the biggest reason is a stint in the anglo-sphere. |
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prlester
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| 24601 wrote: |
| kdynamic wrote: |
| I don't think people were outright bashing Japanese girls. A lot of people said that there were lots of great Japanese women. I think people were bashing the guys that repeatedly get themselves involved with bimbos and then are surprised at the result. People were bashing the OP and the girls he picked, not all Japanese girls. |
You got it. I actually feel sorry for the exoticized J women. At least no one is going to marry me and assume that I will keep up the hot pants and hooker boots attire post childbirth. I am expected to end up with some cellulite eventually. I think it also must be a whole lot of pressure to always be so perfect. One of the best things I ever did here I think for my self esteem was to get a gym membership, which includes spa (nekkid) privileges. Despite what many men will propogate (and it is not near as bad here as on say, GP) no, not all J women look like "nubile 18 year olds" for life. They show signs of age and wear and tear too, and let me tell you a good supportive bra and a wonderbuttbra on a thin body can do absolute wonders when she has clothes on.
So yeah, J women are normal women just like everywhere else. They age and they get mad and they can be total biatches and they can be sweet as sin and yes their shiat stinks too and some can have depth and meaning and some lay like a starfish and scream OMG it's SO BIG and have G guys think that = great sex and some are excellent lovers and some are career minded and serious and some just want LV all day and ketai all night. (I will give that in general, on the whole, J men and women both are slimmer than western counterparts, and both genders also on the whole pay far more attention to personal grooming. NO ONE wears freaking sweat pants and oversize t-shirts here unless they're homeless).
I just get extraordinarily frustrated with men who exoticize the J woman, come here to get her, go on about how their woman dresses sexy and is not an opinionated biatch like a western woman, and then are ALL SHOCKED she can't have a conversation about sartre or is maybe not the world's best housewife and mom once they get married. Like, really now? I mean I'd say the same thing about guys who marry playboy bunnies and then are all shocked she's not the best date to take to a political dinner party (can't dress appropriately, can't discuss current events and world issues at an intelligent level).
| Quote: |
| Yep, I can say the same for my dating life in Japan. It's fine to have fun. But you can't date the obviously not serious types and then blame the entire society of the country you're in when they turn out to be superficial (as the OP seemed to be doing). I think you understand this perfectly - unfortunately the OP did not. |
Yup. I've met a lot of fabulous J women here. Smart, attractive, fit, sexy, intelligent women. Who can't get a date. Why? They aren't wearing hot pants and hooker boots. They don't bleach their hair and have texas barbie look going on. They walk properly instead of on the side of their foot (if you don't know what I mean you haven't been paying attention). And worst sin of all? They are over 30. (I have counselled them to lie about this since white people age like crap and most asians could knock 5-10 years off and we'd never know). Beautiful sexy smart women who would love to have good conversations and yes ARE interested in sex (in fact, don't want to marry a J man because of what happens in Japanese marriages post wedding!) and want a good sex life but well, aren't the ketai giggly party girl type. So no one even gives them a second glance. Sad. Because those women are HOT. A lot of these women have started getting their papers in order to immigrate to the west in order to get a larger pool of G men to choose from.
| Quote: |
| Some people have these weird idealized notions about Japanese women (just like Japanese guys do about American women... it's the exoticism thing I guess), and those types deserve a wake-up call: there are lots of great women in Japan, and lots of not so great ones. Just like everywhere. That's pretty much what you (Venti) were saying, and I only wish every western guy kept that kind of perspective in mind. |
Yup. You got it. |
I think you would be happier back in the states, with all of the advantages your sex entails. You obviously aren't happy in Japan, and your superficial analysis of the romance situation obviously is predicated on the narrow izikaya experiences with select gaijin and jaded-*beep*-suffocating Japanese that miss their homestay experience. I don't mean to come off mean, but please understand other culture's point of view, and not be conveniently ethno-centric when it is emotionally beneficial. Some cultures place value on mothers and children, have traditions and recognize the value of fathers. Others have long ago destroyed their culture, replacing it with a media driven pop-culture of coke and hot dogs, valuing a mythical dream of economic advancement. I'm not saying Japan is perfect, it has a lot of problems, but don't shield any indeficiencies you perceive you have vis-a-vis the locals. |
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Mark
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 500
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| It's really heartening to hear from some guys who are looking for women of substance. There are lots of intelligent and down to earth Japanese women (some under 30 too), as well as great single foreign women too, but it takes a little work to find them. |
I think that this is what most guys are looking for. |
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