Job Discussion Forums

[Malsol]

[TravellingAround]

I think Malsol just nailed it.

[Shan-Shan]

Excellent synopsis of the situation, Malsol.

[winterlynx1]

Well, Malsol, I do agree with much of your assessment of the English education situation in China. I would also agree and support your desire to see English education improve in China.

But your argument doesn't address my point. In fact much of what you say supports my point.

My point is that a non-related degree does not significantly upgrade the teaching service beyond a high school diploma. You're still just getting a 'conversation buddy,' as you call it.

Unless we go full measure and get truly qualified educators (related degree, L1 English, etc.) , all we're doing is retricting access to 'conversation buddies,' degree'd or not.

Unfortuately, getting all truly qualified FTs is not an option. There aren't enough of them. So, the alternative is to match well educated and skilled Chinese English teachers (and don't tell me there aren't any - I know differently) with 'conversation buddies' who speak L1 English. That's the solution available.

Efforts to limit access to the English teaching role with a restriction that does not address improving the quality of service is simply elitism. Such a measure would deny students access to education.

I'm not pounding this drum out of self-interest. I have an MA in education, TESOL qualification, many years of teaching and curriculum development experience, and I'm a serious student of the Chinese language. It's not just the wannabees that make this kind of argument.

[winterlynx1]

Let me qualify that bit about the availability of qualified Chinese English Teachers.

I can find them in most of the major cities. Outside of that, things can get difficult. You have to pay more that most of the school are prepared to pay - but if you're prepared to pay you can get them.

[vikdk]

[Malsol]

[Shan-Shan]

Opening the floodgates to "chit-chat chums" or "conversation comrades" who are merely taking some time out from their hectic high-school schedule to travel overseas for some fine conversation can only harm the industry.

Schools may want more than a conversation buddy, but just advertise for one as such. Money will be saved, and hundreds of other professional conversationalists will be available should someone get a chronic sore throat. The duties will likely increase until the qualified talker backs out, and another is found to exploit.

I speak from experience. While completing my undergraduate degree, I worked for a semester as a TA at a private language school in Canada. In many cases, I substituted for the "real" who was either sick/quit or fired (exceptional turn over rate for the three months) for which I was still paid my ordinary two dollars above minimum wage. Aside from substituting and acting as linguistic repair man in class, I also held pronunciation workshops (good practice for my phonetics course during the previous semester) and an after school reading class/tutorial sessions for the less than serious.

Since I had yet to graduate or complete my TESL, I was only "the buddy" for students to practice language on. However, other duties, as written above, emerged which demanded more than speaking power, all of which I was only compensated for in the most minor of wages. Without a degree, I was "asssistant", a "helper" who in actuality did a lot of teaching.

But cool and calculating Mr. Kim wouldn't have it any other way. No BA, no teacher status. Regardless of the actual work involved as the "practice partner", the status and pay would never change. Mr. Kim got a lot for his $7.50 per hour.

[winterlynx1]

[vikdk]

[winterlynx1]

Just a friendly tip, Vikdk: If you want to make a case for the superior intelligence of the university graduate, you might want to start your posts with a word other that �duh.� I don�t know � just a feeling I have. I could be wrong about that, too. I mean, I don�t have any empirical evidence to back up that opinion either.

I do have to agree with you, however, that there needs to be some hard evidence behind a decision to limit entry into this job market, either pro or con. I�ve already admitted that I�m just working on personal experience and also that I�m working with a biased sample. But there is no research on either side of this question. Since there is no emperical evidence, there�s no basis for implementing restrictive regulation either.

The question is � what qualification(s) represents a significant lift in teaching performance among foreign teachers who pass a reasonably rigorous employment interview? And I�d add, at what level of English instruction does that lift become both substantial and important?

high school diploma
unrelated university degree
related university degree
graduate degree
related graduate degree?

I�m not aware of research that addresses the question. There�s opinion and experience on both sides of the unrelated degree issue. Until we have such evidence there�s no basis for instituting a restrictive regulation.

[vikdk]

[TravellingAround]

[TravellingAround]

[Malsol]

More than half of the Chinese English teachers were formerly teachers of Russian. This while only 57% of all Chinese speak Mandarin.