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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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 Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: |
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great word game on here
the residency permit mentioned is a sticker in a passport for the purpose of work and it is provided with an employer with SAFEA
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| Many people have residence permits -- obtained legally -- but do not work for SAFEA schools. |
yes, and those people have a residency permit booklet, don't they
coming back to the heading of this thread, i would say that contracts are rather flexible in favor of employers
there are all kinds of contracts around china with the employers trying to maintain their "upper hand" and they use their lawyers to do it within their "chinese borderlines"... mistranslations or ambigious points are everywhere
SAFEA contract has been created to standardize the contracts for foreign workers in the country, although there is a practice of signing two contracts everywhere, an SAFEA and an employer's one alongside ... many FTs find the SAFEA one-sided, but do we want to take it up with the foreign affairs 
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| SAFEA is designed, contrary to what they'd have you believe, to look out for the interests of the mostly governmental institutions that employ foreigners. I think there are a great many people on this forum with very real personal experience on exactly how SAFEA institutions can be dishonest and downright malicious. SAFEA is not synonymous with safety, fairness or integrity. |
now, i don't know how malicious they might be, but it is the truth that they look out for the interests of employers mostly .... my SAFEA experience is rather pleasant, however i do believe that there are many others with their sad experiences around
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| The SAFEA recognized schools you mention are, for the most part, government universities and schools. |
i guess that's your experience...i can't argue ...have got no stats with me
chinese have to learn what contracts are and that's the truth...SAFEA leaves no room to negotiate....it is a contract to be enforced everywhere ... but rules come and rules go ... rules are written and unwritten ... you might get away working on "L" or "F" visa in say Maoming Guangdon, but you might not get away with it in say Fuzhou Fujian or Guangzhou, Guangdong
cheers and beers to all hard working FTs in China under all kinds of visas  |
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Joe C.
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 993
Location: Witness Protection Program
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
great word game on here
the residency permit mentioned is a sticker in a passport for the purpose of work and it is provided with an employer with SAFEA
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| Many people have residence permits -- obtained legally -- but do not work for SAFEA schools. |
yes, and those people have a residency permit booklet, don't they |
What are you talking about? The green books that served as resident permits have disappeared over a year -- and maybe even two years-- ago.
Residency permits are now full page stickers pasted into your passport -- at least for "Z" visas.
| englishgibson wrote: |
| ... but rules come and rules go ... rules are written and unwritten ... you might get away working on "L" or "F" visa in say Maoming Guangdon, but you might not get away with it in say Fuzhou Fujian or Guangzhou, Guangdong |
There are many people working in Guangzhou on "L" and "F" visas. Conservatively speaking, at least 50% in Guangzhou are. Unlike Shanghai, if you keep a low profile and are reasonably not stupid, you can survive in Guangzhou working almost forever. I know many people in Guangzhou who have been working here as long as 18 years on an endless string of either "L" or "F" visas. But the legality of it is another thing. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| yes, and those people have a residency permit booklet, don't they |
Mr. Joe C is right....where have you been English....
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| SAFEA contract has been created to standardize the contracts for foreign workers in the country, although there is a practice of signing two contracts everywhere, an SAFEA and an employer's one alongside |
English this is called the admendum....and it contains the specifics of the contract..
Quote:
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| SAFEA is designed, contrary to what they'd have you believe, to look out for the interests of the mostly governmental institutions that employ foreigners. I think there are a great many people on this forum with very real personal experience on exactly how SAFEA institutions can be dishonest and downright malicious. SAFEA is not synonymous with safety, fairness or integrity. |
English wrote:
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| now, i don't know how malicious they might be, but it is the truth that they look out for the interests of employers mostly |
English pay attention....
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| real personal experience on exactly how SAFEA institutions can be dishonest and downright malicious. |
he is talking bout the institution itself and not the SAFEA contracts...
the crux here is that SAFEA schools are no more incline to give you a even break than any other type of schools and a SAFEA contract guarantee little in the way of mediation or surety of fairness. Most of my contract that were actually honored were of foreign companies and drafted overseas..where the spirit of the law is still a concept that many will try and live up to..these contract would not be SAFEA approved but would offer more protection because of the business ethics of the folks who drafted them...foreigners |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Following are some actual examples from a contract. The source of this contract is not some backwoods tumble down shack. It is an extremely prestigious school, perhaps the finest of its kind in the entire province.
" Party B shall teach 21 class periods per week of foreign language according to Party A's arrangement (each class period being 40 minutes). Teaching hours above a maximum of 24 will be compensated as overtime." Overtime pay is 40RMB per hour
Interpretation: Your contract is for twenty four hours, not 21.
"Party B shall also perform such other duties as are customarily performed by foreign teacher in similar position and such other ancillary services and duties related to Community Assistance Program or Sister School Assistance Program as may be assigned to Party A by Party B."
Interpretation: You can be farmed out at the employer's whim and not be paid for these assignments.
"Without Party A's consent, Party B shall not render services elsewhere, including volunteer services, o hold any post concurrently that is unrelated to the work agreed on by Party A, unless such work is arranged by Party A.
Interpretation: You are not allowed to do anything outside the school without permission. Your school, however, may arrange things for you to do. You will not be paid for those things arranged by the school.
Party B shall be provided with a "broadband internet connection."
Interpretation: You will be on the school LAN, which is too small for the number of users; consequently, your internet speed will be slower than a 56k modem used in the States 5 years ago.
"An international air ticket will be provided between the coast nearest Party B's home country and Party A's campus."
Interpretation: You will be reimbursed for the cost af a plane ticket that flies directly from the States to Beijing. If you live in a place which has no major internationapl airport, the cost of getting to the international airport will be borne by you. The cost of getting to the school from Beijing is also your responsibility. [Several hours by train, or approximately $100 by plane]
The contract also includes mandatory English corner attendance, unpaid.
The interpretations, except for the internet, were proviced by an FAO. The English corner requirement as well as the "farming out" aspect were downplayed significantly by the FAO, perhaps accurately.
Of course, I refused to sign such a contract.
You should too. |
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TravellingAround
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| tofuman wrote: |
The contract also includes mandatory English corner attendance, unpaid.
The interpretations, except for the internet, were proviced by an FAO. The English corner requirement as well as the "farming out" aspect were downplayed significantly by the FAO, perhaps accurately.
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English Corner should be one of those kind of things where you show your face once then never go to again. They can be truly awful to have to put up with and are only ever for the "foreign monkey" routine. As supposedly professional teachers they should be avoided like the plague. I was once told that they were not mandatory but FTs were "expected" to go. I told them I felt this was racist and would broadcast this term about their institution all over the internet as they don't expect Chinese teachers to go to them and they soon said they didn't mind if I didn't go after all... 
To be fair though most Chinese institutions try to get their FTs to do this unpaid crap...it wouldn't be so bad if most students didn't live such terminally dull lives. Let's be honest...if we were going to talk about their interests it would likely be filled with references to 'World of Warcraft' or 'Hello bloody Kitty'...
I remember asking some students what they did in their holiday. Other than sleeping, going on their computer and playing football/basketball....nothing much at all it seemed!  |
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georginachina
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| English Corner is usually a waste of one's valuable time, although it can be a great source of amusement. Some male acquaintances of mine find it a great resource for snaring naive young Chinese girls. |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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georginachina
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Travellin wrote....
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| English Corner should be one of those kind of things where you show your face once then never go to again. They can be truly awful to have to put up with and are only ever for the "foreign monkey" routine. As supposedly professional teachers they should be avoided like the plague. |
.....and I added my thoughts.
Why are you picking on me, little Malsol? |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tofuman
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: |
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I happen to enjoy English corners. I go because I like to attend them. I don't appreciate being told that I must perform certain duties and not be paid for them. That is the issue, not the English corner itself.
I found particularly egregious the obvious attempt to conceal the actual number of teaching periods, 24.
I found another position teaching a maximum of 16 hours for the same salary this place was offering. No mention of English corner, being loaned to other schools, or doing free promotional activity. It pays to look around. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:48 am Post subject: |
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That 21 vs 24 teaching periods is deffenitely deceiving in the contracts. I'd confront the employer on that one prior to my signing it and I'd be very curious how he/she would react or follow up.
Regarding those English Corners, I've had some good ones as well as bad ones. They often depend on students expectations and their mixture in with regards to their interest or level of English.
Cheers and beers to all hard working FTs in China |
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