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supplendary
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Florida, USA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: Female Teachers in KSA? |
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Hello, I am new to this forum, and this is my first post.
I am thinking of becoming an English teacher in KSA, where I will be moving in the next couple of years, and I would like some advice that will help me find a well-paying teaching job in Jeddah. Here is some info about me:
BA in English
Plan to get MA in Linguistics: TESL. The program at my university has two semester practium (counts as experience?).
Female, but my husband is Saudi so I don't think I'll still need a work visa.
Also, I am wondering:
How much can I expect to earn?
Are the female teachers in Saudi usually married to Saudis, or do they go on a work visa?
Do female and male ESL teachers get paid about the same?
If I find a job after moving to Saudi, would employers still provide housing, travel, and all those other benefits they advertise?
Can female tutors easily find tutoring jobs outside of the university or college?
Thank you in advance! |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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You should be able to find a job - if your husband agrees to that.
Salaries for feamle teachers are MUCH lower than for males. You will not get the normal expatriate benefits if you are recruited locally. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Salaries for feamle teachers are MUCH lower than for males. |
This is simply not true. I have had three jobs here - in two of them, female teachers were paid exactly the same as males. In the third, men reputedly got more than women, but only slightly more.
| Quote: |
| How much can I expect to earn? |
First off, your practicum will not be counted as 'experience', if only because most places will only consider post-MA experience, at least as far as salary calculations are concerned. I would say that you're looking at starting salaries of about SR8,700, as an MA with no experience.
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| Are the female teachers in Saudi usually married to Saudis, or do they go on a work visa? |
Only a few teachers I know are married to Saudis - most come here on an international contract. Some are 'local hires' who come over on their husband's visa and are recruited in KSA. However, as Scot says, if you are taken on as a local hire (whether as the wife of a Saudi or an expat), you will not get most of the expat benefits such as housing or air tickets.
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| Can female tutors easily find tutoring jobs outside of the university or college? |
Yes - English teachers are very much in demand. Bear in mind that 'moonlighting' will very likely be against the terms of your contract, although so long as you're discreet you should be able to get away with it. Many women who are here with their husbands make tutoring into a full-time job - it can be more lucrative and less hassle-laden than working at a college, though by its very nature it is unreliable and often transitory. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Today's 'Arab News' has anad for an international sc hool where teachers are offered 1,800 Saudi Riyals a month. (About US$480)
Interested ? |
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supplendary
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
You should be able to find a job - if your husband agrees to that.
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Yeah, my husband agrees. He is putting me through school and is very supportive about what I want to do. I have an idea of how things are in Saudi because I have a couple of non-Arab friends who have lived in Saudi.
| scot47 wrote: |
...international sc hool [offers] 1,800 Saudi Riyals a month. Interested?(About US$480)
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Yeah, if I only have to work 1 day a week. Are you serious? This might be attractive to someone from a country such as India where $480 a month might seem like a reasonable paycheck, but a US MA? I'd be surprised.
To be quite honest, I love the field, but I do want to make money. I had considered getting a degree in finance, but my husband said that it would be useless in Saudi Arabia. I haven't completely discarded the idea, though, because I could always work on it online. Any thoughts on that? |
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supplendary
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Cleopatra,
Thanks for your detailed responses.
| Cleopatra wrote: |
...if you are taken on as a local hire (whether as the wife of a Saudi or an expat), you will not get most of the expat benefits such as housing or air tickets. |
Do you get more money instead?
Thank you and Scott for your responses. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Do you get more money instead?
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No. You might even get less. The reasoning behind local hires not being given benefits is that their husband usually gets such benefits on their wife's behalf, which is usually true. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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As 'cleo' says if you are recruited locally they will pay LESS. Schools to try here include the Intercontinental and Jeddah Prep. There was a good international school run by Saudi Arabian Airlines ( the so-called 'American School') that was in the throes of reorganisation a few years ago when I left Jeddah.
Universities are also worth looking at. |
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supplendary
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| ...their husband usually gets such benefits on their wife's behalf... |
Even if my husband is not getting the benifits since he is Saudi? So in that case (meaning moving there w/ husband and then finding a job) what can I expect to earn? |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Even if my husband is not getting the benifits since he is Saudi? |
Well, if he is employed he will be getting health insurance for you, and presumably will be able to put a roof over both your heads. As for flights home every year, well, it's too bad.
In any case, fair or unfair, if you are employed on a local contract, you will not get any of the usual expat benefits. The only way you can be sure of getting a full international package is, well, to go as an international hire. To do this you will of course have to apply from abroad, and go through the whole visa application procedure independent of your husband. If you manage to get a job this way, you will be under the sponsership of your employer, not your husband. This isn't neccessarily a bad thing, but it is something you need to be aware of. As for what you could earn, as I wrote above, salaries for 'fresh" MAs in Saudi third level colleges start around the 8500SR mark. |
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ootii
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Female Teachers in KSA? |
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| supplendary wrote: |
Plan to get MA in Linguistics: TESL. The program at my university has two semester practium (counts as experience?).
Female, but my husband is Saudi so I don't think I'll still need a work visa. |
Definately finish your MA before you come. You will be well placed for a university appointment, even without experience. Saudi Universities are desperate for qualified EFL instructors, and are raising salaries in some places in order to attract more. English is a required subject in all undergragudate courses and there are more and more university entrants each year. New hires have not keep pace with the influx, and the new universities are also in need. Women are in special demand, but without an MA, they won't look twice.
Your husband will be your "sponsor". You will qualify for Saudi nationality after a couple of years and you would be well advised to consider this option carefully since your legal rights here are considerably curtailed if you are classified as a foreigner. Technically, naturalized Saudis must revoke their citizenship of origin, but Saudis by birth quite frequently have dual nationality and are never required to choose one or the other. If you are a Western national you have a good chance of holding on to your original citizenship - if you are American, however, you should conslut with the State department beforehand to avoid being relieved of your passport by some boffin somewhere. [A legal note here: Saudi laws say lots of things, and these things are generally ignored with impunity. The golden rule is that you can do anything you want until someone says "No". If someone says "No", you can often find a bigger someone who will say "Yes", if you ask politely. If your husband is well connected, Bob's your uncle. If not, connect yourself. My wife's better at this than I am and gets access to all kinds of "restricted services" through her social networking.]
Whether or not your husband is your "sponsor" you will still need his written permission to work. Initially, you should expect the usual "expat" package, including tickets home, but you will not get a housing allowance if your husband is also working. If your kids are classified as "Arabs" you won't get any education allowance. Western salaries range from 6.5 to 10+ k plus per month plus benefits. Saudis get more per month for the same jobs but no housing benefits, education allowance, or tickets, so it usually evens out.
Of course, Saudis get plugged into the normal academic pecking order, but until you finished a PhD, you'd still be out of that loop. If you're coming here long term - and it sounds like you are - keep that in mind.
| Quote: |
| Can female tutors easily find tutoring jobs outside of the university or college? |
There's always a market for home tutors but you should not depend on this for income and it's much better to have an ordinary job if you can manage that. You'll probably need some Arabic to work as a home tutor. |
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ootii
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Well, if he is employed he will be getting health insurance for you, and presumably will be able to put a roof over both your heads. As for flights home every year, well, it's too bad. |
Recently, all employers have been required to take out private health insurance for their employees. I believe this applies to Saudi as well as non-Saudi nationals. Such insurance generally covers an employee's entire family. Saudis I know insist that the state sector is every bit as competent as the private sector. Incredibly, they seem to be moving toward a US style health-care system. (What else? The doctors are calling the shots.)
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| The only way you can be sure of getting a full international package is, well, to go as an international hire. To do this you will of course have to apply from abroad, and go through the whole visa application procedure independent of your husband. If you manage to get a job this way, you will be under the sponsership of your employer, not your husband. This isn't neccessarily a bad thing, but it is something you need to be aware of. As for what you could earn, as I wrote above, salaries for 'fresh" MAs in Saudi third level colleges start around the 8500SR mark. |
What you get depends on what you can negotiate. I was hired locally and got the full expat package, including tickets to a remote Western state for my whole family, including Arab wife. If your employers are well-connected, they can do just about anything for you.
A Saudi neighbor of mine is married to an American woman. He gets annual tickets "home" for his whole family - and I don't think his wife is working. |
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ootii
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| supplendary wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
...international sc hool [offers] 1,800 Saudi Riyals a month. Interested?(About US$480)
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Yeah, if I only have to work 1 day a week. Are you serious? This might be attractive to someone from a country such as India where $480 a month might seem like a reasonable paycheck, but a US MA? I'd be surprised. |
This is what my wife earns on months that they actually pay her. Sometimes they give them checks but there's no money in the account. Sometimes the headmistress makes a "mistake" writing them. Sometimes they get no checks at all. She made friends with one of the local bank tellers who watches the account and calls her when someone makes a deposit. Then she dashes across the road to cash her check. She's the only one who gets her money regularly - because the bank is next door.
Saudis generally regard foreign workers as a kind of slave. The money thing is a way for them to exert power and authority over you. They will keep the teachers salaries a couple of months in arrears just to "make sure" they don't quit, because if they did, they'd have no chance of recovering their wages. Then again, if the business is going bottom up, they'll just keep the workers hanging on hopelessly until it crashes, and in this case, no money at all either.
Avoid working for private schools. They are, without exception, a pain in the backside. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Incredibly, they seem to be moving toward a US style health-care system. |
Or a "US style non-systen?" Yes, I heard this too, and am equally alarmed. I have found the state-run health care services here to be pretty good: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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| A Saudi neighbor of mine is married to an American woman. He gets annual tickets "home" for his whole family - and I don't think his wife is working. |
In which case he presumably was taken on as an international hire. I don't think Saudi women can sponser their husbands anyway. |
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ootii
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Or a "US style non-systen?" Yes, I heard this too, and am equally alarmed. I have found the state-run health care services here to be pretty good: if it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
Last summer I took my seven-year-old to the dentist before leaving on holiday. He poked around, took some x-rays and then gave me an estimate of 10,000 SR for the work. I said, "Bye". A week later I had the work done in Egypt for the equivalent of about 50 SR. The Saudi dentist thought I was "insured", obviously.
As for the state sector, it's still touch and go. A colleague of mine was taking his wife to the government hospital where he was supposed to be treated according to his contract. They suspected breast cancer but the doctors kept denying it. They went private and confirmed cancer. Then the hospital said that they couldn't treat it because they didn't have the equipment. "You'll have to go private", the said. So he went to his employer who told him that they could arrange for her to be admitted to King Faisal Specialist Hospital, but that he would have to pay for it. And so he paid for it.
Another friend had twin girls a few months ago. He works for one of the local "international schools". The girls were a month premature and in and out of hospital for several months. His employer refused to pay because the insurance policy they carried "didn't cover it", so he had to pay himself.
Sounds like HMO nonsense. Typcially, the law requires that everyone be "insured", and under-insured is enough to meet the requirement.
At least, if you are Western, you have some recourse. I was speaking to the tea-guys today. They work 75 hour weeks.
"What about overtime", I asked.
"We get a lump sum for overtime."
"How much is that".
"One hundred riyals a month", he said.
"Well, with a 48 hour statuatory work week, that's 23 hours overtime a week. It works out to about one riyal an hour. Not reasonable at all."
"No", he said. "It isn't."
"And it's illegal", I told them.
"Yeah. It's illegal." He said, smiling. |
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