Job Discussion Forums

[nolefan]

funny how we keep getting the same song and dance every couple of months here about NT.

I can't help but notice that no one here on this thread is claiming to have had a bad experience with that company, just the old fashioned bias against all recruiters.

The last person to target NT did it over a year ago almost as a personal vendetta against me and even then.. admitting it was true, it's 1 person out the 100+ new times has placed since then.
Given how vocal "unhappy" folks can be, you would expect a lot more horror stories.. it does not seem to be the case.

I was there back in the days when the decision was made at NT to tell it like it is. No job is guranteed before arrival in China! Any recruiter who claims the opposite is simply lying.

a school will contact over a dozen agencies in their quest for teachers, by the time the job is promised to you, it might not exist anymore. Now imagine landing in China thinking you're going to place A only to find out after landing that you're really gonna be in place B.... wouldn't you be pissed off?

What NT does is the way it should be done. Come on over, there's plenty of jobs. Once you get here, you go and visit the schools without any commitment made. If you like what you see, you sign. If you don't like what you see, you move on. There is no catch.

Problems arise one way or the other. they're almost unavoidable because of differences in personalities, culture, upbringing and what not. At least, in this case, you have a fallback.

Give the guys over at NT props for beings as honest as they can be and putting their name on the line.

[clark.w.griswald]

[Worldly]

[clark.w.griswald]

Wordly I can think of at least three reasons that the recruiter may not have gotten back to you:

a) they didn't want you - perhaps they don't have any suitable placements for you and they therefore did not offer you anything. I don't think that a recruiter or an employer is obliged to give you an interview or take an interest in you. Although I would agree that it would be polite to acknowledge receipt of your interest in their position or services, it is certainly not unsual in China to only hear back on an application for which there is interest. Usually no feedback means no interest;

b) they didn't get your email in the first place - this is not particularly unusual with the spam filters and the like. It seems that when you brought the problem to their attention here that they asked for you to resend your information to them - they can't do much more than that. You declined and that's fine;

c) they have your CV on file or hadn't gotten around to contacting you. Again good practice would be to notify teachers that the CV had been received, but perhaps they see things differently

So while your experience is interesting to hear about, I think it a bit unreasonable to indicate that they purposefully ignored your contact on the basis of some form of discrimmination. Maybe they did, or maybe they never got your application in the first place.

As to the issue of discrimination isn't your problem really with the recruiter's customers (the schools) not wanting people of certain ages or ethnicities? Or the schools customer's (the students)?

Yes you can take the view that it is unfair for them to be so up front about the fact that they can't easily find a position for people who don't meet certain criteria, but then I think that the fact that they are upfront about this is probably appreciated by many people who are disqualified by those very criteria. Isn't it better for them to tell you that they can't help you when they know that to be the case, rather than make false promises that they will help out only to throw your CV in the trash can?

I am fortunate to meet all the criteria so I cannot speak from experience about how frustrating it must be to be turned away from a position due to some prejudices, but I would think that it is better for you and others to find an employer that wants you rather than fight the ones who don't. I think that what New Times is doing is realistic and the fact that they are upfront about it may appear brutal but seems to me to actually be helpful.

[Sugarcandy Mountain]

I have communicated with New Times in the past. I agree that Jack was professional and honest when he wrote an e-mail to me that NT couldn't help me find a job where I wanted to be. Based on what I read, I believe that the New Times recruiter will "stand by" their placements.

But, based on this, I wonder about the connections they have - "it is remarkable how easy it is for teachers to lash out at NT whenever anything goes wrong which is in no way NT's fault. ....
Kellen and Carolyn have it right. They have had problems with their school"

Considering that New Times is a "reputable" organization - Why is it that many people complain about the schools that NT placed them in? This is not a "new" occurence.

They may not be as reputable as they want you to think. If they were the "bomb" then no one would complain.

Why would New Times, a reputable group, place people in a shady school?

[NathanRahl]

Why are so many complaining, because clearly they are not hapy. Look, it don't take a rocket scienctist to figure out that A, New times service is supposed to be finding you a "good" school, and B, if they keep sending you to schools that such, then maybe they ain't such a good recruiter.

Yeah, they may pour you tea, serve you mint cakes or some other crap, and make you feel special, who knows, but in the end, the quality of what they are providing don't seem all that good to me. Who cares how nice they are if they do a bad job, and the job is finding you a decent school, not just any school that will employ you because your white and have a pulse.

Now clearly you either work for New Times, you'll say you don't duh, or are somehow affliated with them, again, Duh. Your post just sounds too scripted and business like to be from some random person.

Anyhow, I have heard lots of bad things about new times, and not just here. Bigger you get, more money you wanna make, you'll send teachers anywhere for a quick buck. Oh and folks, new times makes 4,000 rmb per teacher, in some cases more. You really expect them to care where they send you at 4,000 a pop. Yeah right. Tootles

[Sugarcandy Mountain]

"funny how we keep getting the same song and dance every couple of months here about NT. "

It is funny. Why do people, regularly, complain about New Times?

I wonder why?

Go Gators!!

Personally, I don't give a shit about the number of your, it pains me to type, POSTS.

You have no clue. All you are is a cheap advertiser of their "Boot Camp".

You are either with us or against us.

I'll bet that you are one of them.

[Sugarcandy Mountain]

The recruiter typed - "What NT does is the way it should be done. Come on over, there's plenty of jobs. Once you get here, you go and visit the schools without any commitment made. If you like what you see, you sign. If you don't like what you see, you move on. There is no catch. "

How does a legitimate "teacher", in your words - "come on over"? I will harp on "there's vs. there're". Are you a legitmate "teacher"?

Assuming that NT is a legitimate recruiter, wouldn't they secure, or at least ensure that proper documents, Z Visa, are lined up before someone arrives/"comes on over"?

"..the way it should be done..."

[nolefan]

Alright, let's clear a few things out.

As you can see from older posts, I have fully disclosed that I have ongoing business with New Times' president.. that's been the case for over 2 years. I have however, no connection to the recruiting business. NT and Sinocamps are completely separate businesses.

@sugarcandy: They are a recruiter, not the employer. As they state on their website, it is not their responsibility to secure a teacher's visa. NT can help when needed but it is outside of the scope of their operations.
Now, contact an agency like ANTAL who was worldwide operations and ask them if they handle visa for the employees they hook up with jobs.... the answer is NO. NT's sole visa responsibility is to their own employees which I believe they take care of.


The recruiters that are responsible for a teachers visa are those who hire the teachers directly and then farm them out. In which case, you're working for the recruiter and not the school. when that's the case, 90% of the time, they take a cut out of your salary. Nt, on the other hand, never touches your salary! They advise you in terms of positions and what you can expect but leave the small details to be negotiated directly.

As far as the schools they deal with, I can't answer that question. Jacques is better equipped than I am to do so.

All I can say is that the teachers get to visit the schools and see it for themselves before they sign their names on the contract. If they can see it all in person and then something still goes wrong... do you think it would have been better for someone coming from the other side of the globe? At least with NT, they have a place to pack up to and go.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that they're the white knight in shining armor but we gotta give some credit where credit is due.

[clark.w.griswald]