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wildchild
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 519
Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010
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 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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ted said:
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| there is rarely, if ever, ANY recognition that something MIGHT BE LEARNED in an educational setting. That ones skills or knowledge might be increased in some sort of useful way. |
So, something might be learned, something might not, in some sort of uselful way, or not?
You're funny! 
I know what you might learn: that you payed way too much money to sit there, shut up, listen to the Prof. and don't interupt, and do silly homework assignments and essays. Oh, and then there's the practicum; That's where you pay to go teach a class! 
For anyone seriously considering doing an MA TESOL because they actually want to learn something, rather than for the piece of paper, get ahold of a sylabus of any class that you think is interesting, find a cheap copy of the text and ... there you have it. It's a lot less expensive way to find out if you MIGHT learn something.
And speaking of tuition. That is one of the major differences between me and the Uni. I don't charge my students inflated prices so that they can sit there, mouth shut and listen to me monologue lecture for over an hour.
To answer your questions:
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| WHY should your students sit in YOUR class? Only to enrich you? Why are you a teacher? Just to strip money from your students? |
Speaking of beginning students, it's obvious, they can't speak, much.
And again, I don't charge ridiculous prices, unlike the Uni.
For the advanced students, I often ask myself the same question. I
think that most of them just wanna get out of the house, do
something, maybe they wanna make a new friend.
And I think that's why I prefer working with beginners; I feel that I'm
actually earning my money.
I'm a teacher because I'm more efficient (for the moment anyway)
than a book, tapes, DVDs, CDs and videos. Beginning students need
some human interaction. Profs. who stand in front of the class and
monologue lecture what is written in the text are not very efficient and
are not worth the tuition.
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| Why would you encourage students to attend the school where you teach? |
Again, the beginners need the interaction and proper instruction. I
often ask the same question for advanced students and often would
not encourage them to come to school. Again, maybe they need a
friend, are insecure about their linguistic ability, who knows.
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| If you want only to "Fill your own rice bowl" there are FAR more lucrative occupations than education. |
Compare the fees I charge with those of the Uni and it will quickly become obvious who is in the business to "fill their McMansion in the Burbs with plastic" |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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I agree with ted. Those who are adamantly against any type of formal education don't truly know why they're against it. They convince themselves that they have nothing to learn from that environment simply because you have to pay a substantial amount of money (which in itself signals a lack of education).
Yes, you could learn something from being in an educational setting--you just choose to believe that you would learn more by not being there. This is the "elitist" attitude coming from the other side of the fence: "I don't have a formal degree but I'm smarter than you because I didn't waste money on such a thing."
Practice what you preach or get out of the field. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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I think wildchild demonstrates his/her own out of touch-ness with modern approaches to education when he/she claims to be more efficient than a professor who delivers a monologue to a class.
No doubt that this is true, but it's not an accurate picture of what happens in univerisites.
I think, from my own experience teaching in universities over the past 8 years, and substantial reading in the field in pursuit of my own MA, the monologue approach to teaching/learning is considered pretty obsolete across all disciplines - and especially in language learning. |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| the monologue approach to teaching/learning is considered pretty obsolete across all disciplines - and especially in language learning. |
Yes, and that's what grad school is all about. Each class is treated more like a seminar, in which students are expected (and sometimes required) to thoughtfully contribute to each class.
If two heads are better than one, how about 20? |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the previous posters.
People who pass on a graduate education really do miss the very best part of the program. Grad school is SO much more enjoyable as you are finally studying what you want in areas that interest you most - with experts in those topics.
Though more work than undergrad - most people find it easier as you are doing what you enjoy. |
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movinaround
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| tedkarma wrote: |
I agree with the previous posters.
People who pass on a graduate education really do miss the very best part of the program. Grad school is SO much more enjoyable as you are finally studying what you want in areas that interest you most - with experts in those topics.
Though more work than undergrad - most people find it easier as you are doing what you enjoy. |
I don't know so much about the enjoyable part  , but it is more interesting aside from one thing. That being you have the option of taking useless electives in undergrad that have nothing to do with anything (which I know some feel waste time, but you can also take useless, but interesting things like Military history...) This is possible in a Masters I guess, but not as likely...
For some of the others, I just don't understand how people are putting down higher education. It might not be for everybody, and I accept some people have different goals, but some of the comments here seem very emotional and lacking a strong logical backup. Education is not a bad thing. Maybe not as useful as it should be, but definitely not a detriment to society, as some are playing it out to be  |
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wildchild
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 519
Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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To address the previous posts:
I apologize that I over-generalized. 
I know that what I experienced will not be the same at every Uni or with every Prof. but my experience was a bad one.
I took two MA TESOL courses. They were not seminars. Interuptions were not tolerated. 
They were monologue lectures and, Spiral, that was in Sept. 2006; so much for being out of touch-ed.
Spiral, the monologue lecture might be considered obsolete, especially amongst education/learning researchers, yet I can assure you, unfortunately, that it is still in practice by some of those same researchers.
Jizzo said
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| Those who are adamantly against any type of formal education don't truly know why they're against it. |
Please cite where I said that I'm against any type of formal education. Until you do that, you cannot be taken seriously (by me, at least  ). |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| wildchild wrote: |
Jizzo said
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| Those who are adamantly against any type of formal education don't truly know why they're against it. |
Please cite where I said that I'm against any type of formal education. Until you do that, you cannot be taken seriously (by me, at least ). |
I never said you were. I was talking about those who are, in general. |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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One really doesn't need a Ph.D. to read between the lines - the tone - or the attitude.
But, that's just my opinion.
And . . . uh . . . I'm not saying that about anyone. Just a general statement . . . |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildchild, sorry you had a bad experience. But it's really not the norm, at least in the Western world...don't judge all post grad programs by this! |
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wildchild
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 519
Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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ted said:
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| One really doesn't need a Ph.D. to read between the lines - the tone - or the attitude. |
Oh, but you do! It's called Discourse Analysis.
I assume you are familiar with the subject?
So, why do you now diminish the importance of education?
Given teds history of arguing for education and, later, arguing against it, we may now conclude that he is quite mad, should be taken away in a little bus where the passengers are required to wear helmets, and escorted to an appropriate social welfare facility. |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| wildchild wrote: |
ted said:
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| One really doesn't need a Ph.D. to read between the lines - the tone - or the attitude. |
Oh, but you do! It's called Discourse Analysis.
I assume you are familiar with the subject?
So, why do you now diminish the importance of education?
Given teds history of arguing for education and, later, arguing against it, we may now conclude that he is quite mad, should be taken away in a little bus where the passengers are required to wear helmets, and escorted to an appropriate social welfare facility. |
What on earth are you talking about?! |
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