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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Which means your a teacher, but the fancy title makes you a consultant, which it is legal to work for a business or an english training center as if you have an F, thats the only "legal" exemption allowing you to wokr on it. All you have ben so busy argueing about who knows more, most of you have shown you don't know about the simplest things. What a waste, all bals and no brains. |
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Bayden
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| NathanRahl wrote: |
| Which means your a teacher, but the fancy title makes you a consultant, which it is legal to work for a business or an english training center as if you have an F, thats the only "legal" exemption allowing you to wokr on it. All you have ben so busy argueing about who knows more, most of you have shown you don't know about the simplest things. |
WTF 
Yes, the fancy title means he can legally work on an F visa.
All he did was state his situation and you start with this nonsense.
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| What a waste, all bals and no brains. |
What's your problem? |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I was talking to all the up in arms pin heads, being led by their testosterone, who have been arguing ceaselsly in this post. All ego, balls but no brains, cause they don't seem to know the simplest things.
Bayden, sometimes your an *beep*, because you jump in before you know what's going on. Your just way to eager to pounce on someone with a quote and one liner. I know you think life is all a gas, but your so predictable that I honestly think there is not much gray matter in that noggin of yours. You want to keep arguing, lets do it 
Last edited by NathanRahl on Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:30 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Bayden
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I was talking to al the other up in arms, being led by their testosterone pin heads who have been arguing ceaselsly in this post, all ego, ball,s but no brains, cuase they don't seem to know the simplest things. Bayden, sometimes your an ashole, |
The thing is , my boy, you never see me get abusive towards other posters, even you, who is so sure he knows better than ANYONE else on this forum, yet has been here for a relatively short time and had relatively little experience compared with many others here.
I don't bother argueing with you Nathan, it's like wrestling a pig.
You get covered in mud and the pig enjoys it.
By the way, I would say you would be skating on thin ice if these type of posts (abusive) come to the attention of the mods.[/quote] |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Yes, pretty much I am a teacher with a fancy title... Working in a corporate setting and living in a factory city for one of the larger companies in China.
And an F visa is fine with me.
Glad to see this thread generates so much interest and so many comments!!! |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:14 am Post subject: |
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The whole F versus Z versus L always does, because you have so many know it alls here that it quickly de-generates into a contest of who knows more minuate then the next person. When that happens, and it always does, people just stop caring about the actual issue, and only seem to care about who is right about whatever useless point they are trying to make.
You can teach on an L, Z or F, I don't care, if you like what your doing, thats what matters.
Last edited by NathanRahl on Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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georginachina
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I'll have to acknowledge these as "typos". You can almost feel the "frothing at the mouth".
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| I was talking to al the other up in arms, being led by their testosterone pin heads who have been arguing ceaselsly in this post, all ego, ball,s but no brains, cuase they don't seem to know the simplest things. Bayden, sometimes your an ashole, because you jump in before you know whats going on. Your just way to eager to punce on someone with a quote and one liner. I know you think life is al a gas, but your so predictable that I honestly think there is not much gray matter in the noggin of yours. You want to keep arguing, lets do it |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| NathanRahl wrote: |
| You can teach on an L, Z or F, I don't care, if you like what your doing, thats what matters. |
Nathan this is where I don't understand many of your posts on this forum. You often seem to be arguing a point which has never been in contention and is really what others have been stating all along.
I have not seen a single person post that you can't teach here illegally if that is what you want to do.
The F vs. Z visa debate is for those who want to work legally and are trying to work out how they should go about achieving that.
To think that giving yourself a title other than 'English teacher' somehow makes it legal to teach English in China on an F visa really defies common sense. I didn't say anything to Jeff earlier as I believe that he knows this already and I respect his right to work on an F visa if he wants to do so and as he sees that as being a way for him to maintain some freedom. |
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Bayden
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| To think that giving yourself a title other than 'English teacher' somehow makes it legal to teach English in China on an F visa really defies common sense. |
It may defy common sense, but the fact is, if you're invited as a 'trainer' as opposed to a 'teacher' then it's perfectly legal to work on an F visa. |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Actually no, if you work somewhere that is a training center, or for a corporation and are a consultant, or trainer, then it's legal, no schools. Fine line yes, and more of a semantical one if you ask me, but there you go. |
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Bayden
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| NathanRahl wrote: |
| Actually no, if you work somewhere that is a training center, or for a corporation and are a consultant, or trainer, then it's legal, no schools. Fine line yes, and more of a semantical one if you ask me, but there you go. |
Jeff is working for a company, not a school. He's 100% legal. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Bayden, you might be right, but I still would not use that kinda percentage there.
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Jeff wrote:
having a Z visa means that if I leave employment I have to get a new visa so why not just stick with the F visa?
And, I am here as a business person not in the teaching capacity.
My official title is CORPORATE TRAINER for a large manufactuering company.
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Having an F visa means that you have to get a new one too, if you leave that employer, doesn�t it? To get an F, you need a letter from a legit biz, don�t you?
However, I do see a point there and I agree to certain extend that the F visa provides you with more of a freedom.
Regarding your �title� and hiding behind it or not, you should be careful what you teach/lecture to those students of yours in my opinion. Anyway, that�s the way I see it. There might be a line there in between training for the job and teaching Business English.
Now, to a smart user with lots of brains on
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One with lots of brains wrote:
All you have ben so busy argueing about who knows more, most of you have shown you don't know about the simplest things. What a waste, all bals and no brains.
One with lots of brains continued to confront/anal yze:
I was talking to all the up in arms pin heads, being led by their testosterone, who have been arguing ceaselsly in this post. All ego, balls but no brains, cause they don't seem to know the simplest things.
Bayden, sometimes your an *beep*, because you jump in before you know what's going on. Your just way to eager to pounce on someone with a quote and one liner. I know you think life is all a gas, but your so predictable that I honestly think there is not much gray matter in that noggin of yours. You want to keep arguing, lets do it
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Mate, what�s up your a*s? What do you take before you come on those forums?
F versus Z visas issues are rather interesting in China. I like reading on those kinds of threads, although I wish some took a medication prior to their login.
Peace to all kinds of Chinese visas and their users as well as peace to the Chinese legal system
and
cheers and beers to all hard working and hard typing ones  |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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As mentioned I don't work for a training center. The company I work for produces automobiles and parts for mobile phones and and other electronic devices.
I don't teach English here.
I have an office in the sales and marketing division and work in that division.
I meet with high level managment and middle level management and also the companies corporate customers and preform various business/sales related functions.
No teaching of English involved. Most of my day-to-day duties are business related.
I'm actually too busy to even go out and look for side work to make some extra $$$ ! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Bayden wrote: |
| It may defy common sense, but the fact is, if you're invited as a 'trainer' as opposed to a 'teacher' then it's perfectly legal to work on an F visa. |
Bayden I respectfully disagree with you on this one.
Neither the title that you hold, nor the type of employer that you work for make you either legal or illegal work wise on an F visa. What determines your legality on that visa is your purpose for being here.
If you are here in China as you are employed in China and earning a salary then to be legal you should be working on a Z visa. If you are here temporarily on business related matters but still employed overseas and paid overseas then an F visa is the correct visa for you during your time in China. Under those circumstances a person with an F visa can basically be working anywhere provided that they qualify, but as soon as you start earning a salary then you no longer qualify to be here on an F visa.
The Z visa is referred to as a work visa for good reason.
As Jeff is living and working in China and earning a salary here he should be on a Z visa to be working here legally.
| jeffinflorida wrote: |
| No teaching of English involved. Most of my day-to-day duties are business related. |
Jeff the issue as to legality for working here on an F has nothing to do with the title that you may choose for yourself, nor what you actually do each day. Z visas are not only for teachers, they are for all foreigners who wish to live and work in China.
If you are earning a salary here in China then you should be working on a Z visa if you want to be working legally. You can argue otherwise all that you like but I think that you will find that at the end of the day you are still not working legally.
What exactly does that mean to you? Well nothing if your employer is a good one and honors their agreement, and as long as you have no reason to ever attract the attention of the authorities. But should you be unlucky and have problems with your employer, an accident, or come to be the victim of a crime, accident, or a random check up by the FAP then you may face some consequences there.
As I say I am happy for you that you are happy, but I just want to point out that from my understanding you are not legal so anyone reading this and considering working legally in China might want to reconsider their F visa route. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| To think that giving yourself a title other than 'English teacher' somehow makes it legal to teach English in China on an F visa really defies common sense. |
first ..it doesn't matter what tittle we give ourselves or even the business gives..it really matters as to what the government defines as teaching...and as to now...no one can show a definition as to what constitutes a teaching as opposed to a training or lecturing..or even a consultant...
so interpretation would have to be up to a convening authority..not FTs or Website owners..
In Shenzhen...it is common for Universities to send teachers to Hong Kong with letter head requesting F visa.....if the program they are associated with in the university is a franchise from a foreign school and often those visas are only good for three months to a year..and then the school issues a new letter and send the application over again..not sure as to why they are done in Hong Kong as opposed to locally..but it is done so often.. perhaps due to the nature of the F visa a border crossing is required..
and perhaps the 6 month stipulation as to a teaching assignment is also tied to the visa..and a new visa could be consider a new assignment thus complying with the 6 month rule..
like I said ..compliance is in the eye of the convening authority.. |
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