Job Discussion Forums

[vashdown2]

"All you need to do is look at what mexicans have done to america to see what I mean. There are millions of americans out of work. Yet, if the government had the balls to track down and boot out all of those inexperienced underpaid scabs who are in america illegally, there would actually be a surplus of jobs in america. Instead we have 3 million homeless people.

Similiar here, they take jobs away from more qualified people, and do it for peanuts by comparison. "



Nathan, have you ever bothered to take an Economics or Int'l Economics course?

Or even- have you read the paper in the last 10 years? Being from California, I have seen the work that these Mexican people do, and it is usually NOT the type of work that any USA citizen would want to do.

Have you ever worked 10 days in the field picking fruit?

Americans don't want to do that type of work. And when you speak of homeless people, most of them, sadly, have mental conditions, health conditions, or other problems that stop them from being able to work. If they could support themselves, they would not choose to pick fruit or work in the carwash.

[Justin Trullinger]

Nathan,

"China is not Kenya."

I was scanning your post looking for common ground, and that's what I've found. I wholeheartedly agree that China is not Kenya. They're on different continents and everything.

The part about what Mexicans have done to America I take issue with, though. I'd really like to hear more about how you've drawn the link between Mexican migrant workers and US unemployment.

In terms of why there are 3 million homeless in the US, I'd put forward that the issue is a lack of social protections, not a lack of jobs. And thanks, Vashdown2, for pointing out that illness, mental and otherwise, problems in adaptation (veterans for example), and addiction are more commonly the culprits in explaining homelessness than simple unemployment.

It also might be interesting to consider what's happening with wages in the US. When was the last year that the real average wage in the US (adapted for inflation, or as a proportion of cost of living) went up in the US? Is it the Mexican's fault? THen why are stock values on wallstreet rising?


Best,
Justin

[nickpellatt]

I think "china is not kenya", is in reference to other volunteer work I have done...

I guess its saying maybe my volunteer work there, was a better idea than doing the same in China....

[TravellingAround]

[nickpellatt]

I am the OP - and also have posted in a similar thread in the China forum, but it wasnt one I started...Ideas thrown up in that one prompted me to start this one.

I think in the other thread the query was that the OP thought he could test the water with a volunteer organisation or travel company, and would then have a little security and organisation in place for him when he first landed in-country, without the commitment of a long contract.

I think most volunteer organisations, certainly in China, accept 'volunteers' or 'gap year travellers' on short terms, typically three months, and I think this is the type of thing referred to in the other thread...and resoundly slammed, hence me wishing to further explore peoples experiences, good and bad, with volunteers.

I had taken the view that such programs could be good for TEFL in general, but have found this isnt the general opinion at all, which has suprised me in all honesty...and I think if I had encountered this board before I did volunteer work, I may have thought twice about it.....which for me, would have been a mistake.

Why did I think they could be good? A ridiculous thought to most Im sure...

Well, I can imagine that many people arrive to teach, but have possibly never done TEFL / EFL before, may never have visited the country before....and after arriving with their heads spinning, sign a contract, stumble into class......and then in some cases, find it isnt quite what they expected. (im sure this must happen??)

So the 12 month contract, degenerates into a 3 month one, full of missed lessons, haphazard lessons, student liasons, parties and hangovers...and ultimately inconvenience for schools, pupils, fellow teachers etc etc.

My volunteer experience served as a mini-training ground for me, allowed me to learn a little about the country I was in, learn a little about the teaching experience and what was expected of me, and gave me the chance to see if it was the type of thing I would like to do longer term...

Of course, it hasnt made me an expert by any means, but the 100+ hours spent in classes on a volunteer basis, and the 3 months in Hainan have maybe prepared me to some degree, to take a paid contract for 12 months, which I am just due to start?

Now Im sure it will be a long time before I am ever in a position to hire/fire or even recommend people into positions alongside me, but I would have hoped that several months volunteer experience, and several months in-country experience, would be valuable things for a prospective teacher to have on a resume.

Of course I cant generalise, but I would guess many people venturing into foreign travel and teaching may offer applications like the following..

Applicant 1 - Has a University Degree

Applicant 2 - Recently completed a CELTA or similar

Which of course, are both desirable, but neither offer much insight into wether or not someone is prepared to live in another country long term (or at least a year), and neither offer much in the way of actual experience ( although a CELTA offers some).

I have actually read a thread on here, where a teacher left the job as it was her first time in country and she didnt realise she would have squat toilets...all the qualifications and experience in the world wont help if a newly arrived teacher doesnt accept local living conditons.

I kinda think maybe we can view a volunteer program as a vocational training course? Im not suggesting it should ever replace the above, but maybe the experience could be recognised as having some value? Expereince both in a classroom and in the country of choice?

I dont know....I can understand some of the views people tend to have of them, but I also think there are many positives to be taken from them, and they can provide a good grounding and an insight into the life a TEFL teacher has...

I would never have been brave enough to fly into the unknown and leave my family behind, but having experienced my country of choice, and the classroom experience, I have thought long and hard and have taken the leap now....but it isnt a leap into the unknown anymore...

So for me, from this perspective, volunteer programs can be good, as I will arrive to take up my first contract better prepared, a little more aware of the culture and country I will be working in.........and I guess ultimately allowing me to do a better job than if I arrived 'green'.

Edited to add the following..

After posting this I thought about volunteers affecting earning potential of other teachers.....now maybe I am idealist and dont understand either TEFL or common business in other countries.....but I would hope to think the good teachers aren't affected by this?

There are some members on this board, who seem excellent in the way they conduct themselves on the board, and seem dedicated to the roles they have taken, and seem content in the schools, countries and environments in whch they work....are they affected? Im interested to hear...

By the same token, I read other members, who seem at odds with the culture and systems they work in, seem to view students as fair game sexually, and often dont look for anything more than TEFL being a way to pay for a year or two of travel....

Im not pointing fingers at all, this is more of a feeling I get when reading some posts....but Im guessing like most countries and professions...if you're good, you wont be affected...but the mediocre tend to get found out??

[fancynan]

I thought I would chime in from a different perspective, as I am a volunteer program manager, albeit not in the TEFL field. Nevetheless, there are generic similarities. I have managed a volunteer program for almost 10 years, have presented at state and national levels on ethics and volunteer management, have served on Boards for volunteer manager's organizations, and am currently working with others to establish a national organization.

One of the biggest myths about volunteers is that they take positions that would otherwise go to paid professionals. This is not the reality in most organizations. Typically, volunteers AUGMENT staff, not replace them.
There are so many different reasons that people volunteer: to "give back" to a community, to gain experience, to meet other people with like interests, and more. While I have many volunteers in my organization who have been with us for 10 to 20 years, the typical "tenure" for a volunteer is about 2 years because life's changing circumstances come into play. And, yes, the ability to leave if you don't like it is a strong factor for some people. It is NOT a primary job for most people, but, rather, a way to meet a need in their lives.

I am a little wary of companies that charge people to "volunteer" and that extends to teaching volunteers. Nevertheless, a volunteer can be a real boon to a program.

As I prepare to make the transition to a TEFL career, I have sought volunteer positions in the ESL community in my area. I have volunteered as a tutor for a refugee program and am currently a volunteer assistant in an ESL classroom. I am not REPLACING any paid teacher; I am assisting while I learn more about the field.

Whew - a little long-winded, but I wanted to give you a perspective from the other side of the fence.

Thanks!

[Guy Courchesne]

[TravellingAround]

[TravellingAround]

[fancynan]

TravellingAround - as I stated, I do not work at a school; I work for a wildlife agency. I was merely attempting to point out that volunteerism can be a good thing.

[TravellingAround]

[eslstudies]

I came into EFL teaching via volunteering, from a high school English teaching background.
I might add that the volunteer group I came with from Australia were much better qualified and experienced than the on the ground TEFLers we met. This might explain some of the antipathy to volunteers.

[nickpellatt]

[quote="TravellingAround"]