Job Discussion Forums

cheryl · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Japan

Hi everyone,

This is a LONG one so grab a cup of java!

I'd like to get your thoughts on this thread i found on Big Daikon. I'm posting it here because i want to get the opinions of people who: A) aren't fresh out of university with no training/experience whatsoever, B) who won't dismiss this "teacher's" (i don't know for how long he's taught or what training he's had) actions on the basis of, "he sucks as a teacher, or he's an egomaniac", C) people who are teaching in countries other than Japan.

Thanks for reading! Here's the original post: "today's lesson-respect"

J-Pop · Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 215 Location: USA

Cheryl,

Firstly -- I'd be interested in hearing your comments!

Then (assuming this happened, in the way the account says):

--I wonder how well he REALLY understands the students,
--it sounds like the teacher (guy?) needs a break,
--if the students were really THAT bad (at English) I really wonder how much they understood?
--overall, I think this teacher is (sadly, perhaps, but true) not as important in the whole scheme of things as he thinks he is. Laughing

--maybe some training in "stress management" might help? Cool

Steiner · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 573 Location: Hunan China

I remember my English teacher in Jr. High used to go on these rants about how bad our class' behavior was. He was fond of the phrase "chicken manure." We all just stared at the ground and tried to look contrite and bit the insides of our cheeks to keep from laughing. And then it was back to business as usual, except you couldn't make eye contact with your friends for the next thirty minutes or you'd snicker and set him off again.

It do feel good to give 'em what fer, but it jus' make ya look plum silly.

Capergirl · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:03 pm Post subject:

I don't think I'm a "seasoned" teacher yet, but I'll respond anyway. Very Happy

OK, the turning over the desk thing was a bit melodramatic. However, I am with the teacher on this one. It sounds as though his students needed a little lesson about respect. Given the circumstances he described, I would have done something similar (minus the scare tactics, but with a scary voice nonetheless).

What I am wondering is how long the students had been behaving like that before he decided to make some changes. It's best to nip these things in the bud early, IMHO. Expect respect...get respect. Wink

johnslat · Last edited by johnslat on Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
How do you get it? Well, I don't think it's by doing what that teacher did. In fact, if it's gotten to that point, well, clearly you haven't been handling the class the "right way" from Day 1. My rather muddled thoughts on this subject are - 1. You have to have a lot of self-confidence when you first walk into that classroom; if you do, it'll "transmit" itself to the students. You have to give the impression of being totally at ease and relaxed ( even, or especially, if you're not ). You have to "project" the impression that, while you're a nice guy/gal, you absolutely will NOT tolerate any c r a p. I think you also have to "lay down the law" on Day I, and tell the students how it's going to be in YOUR classroom. That old axiom: "Always start off hard; you can get easier later. But, if you start off easy, you'll never be able to enforce discipline" is, I'd say, pretty accurate. I'm not so sure anyone can specifically define how you inspire respect - it's ineffable. But I am sure that you can learn how to, if you don't automatically have it from the start.
Regards,
John

cheryl · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Japan

J-pop,

I thought it'd be better to cut the post off where i did because it had already become a short novel! Shocked

What i think is that the teacher must have been driven to take the drastic measure he did. I don't think he's a bad teacher, but rather a teacher who was frustrated. I think you're right about questioning how much the students understood. It probably would have been better if he could have taken the oral communication part of the class and throw it out the window and do the "respect" lesson in Japanese, but then, we don't know whether he's proficient in Japanese or not.

I also really really really disagreed with him throwing the chalk, the eraser, the book, and overturning the desk. He showed major disrespect while asking for respect. I think his underlying idea was good, but he implemented it wrong. That's just my half cent...

Capegirl: It's curious that no one...NOT ONE person (who posted a reply thread in BigDaikon) thought about what led to this teacher choosing to do this lesson. They called him a bad teacher, or a Nazi (sheesh)..blah blah blah.

J-Pop · Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 215 Location: USA

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

Hmm. Unorthodox perhaps. Last year, for the unrliest class, I would climb up on the desks and glare down at them until they were quiet. Or I'd kick the podium. Even a mild kick makes a pretty good noise. It worked. They settled down and learning took place.

I don't know if it's fair to judge him until we walk a mile in his shoes. How many of us teach large high school classes? That the kids don't take seriously? Some of us, to be sure, but not all. He overturned a table. If he hadn't "lost his cool" but was rather just being dramatic to try to focus attention, then it wouldn't be the most desparate thing I've heard a teacher do. And I'm comparing him to liscenced teachers I knew back in Canada. My mother once grabbed a junior high school student and shouted into his face (for setting another kid's hair on fire) before physically propelling him out of the classroom and into the principle's office. She has been an edcuator for more than 20 years.

Understanding every word? Here's a classic example of that not being necessary. The word "disrespectful" and his rolling up his trousers etc would be clue enough as to why they were being chewed out.

I'm interested to know if his motivational speech was effective.

J-Pop · Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 215 Location: USA

cheryl · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Japan

I have a class like his. That's why i think i can relate to him. The only difference is that i have a collar on me by being in the JET program and being and ALT.

Shonai Ben · Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 617

I taught in the public school system in Canada and I can relate to this teacher's frustration.I feel he did the right thing.He had to regain control of the classroom and by doing this I feel he did.
I don't know how long things were out of control and maybe he caused the problems by not being strict enough in the early classes,but you have to put your foot down and take control again.
It's all part of classroom management.Sometimes it is not pretty.You do what you have to do.

MacMahon · Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 39

How did it get to this???
Is this just 1 real bad day or an accumulation of days/months/years?

Sounds like he may have perpetuated the whole thing and it eventually came to this. Start as you mean to continue would be the first advice that comes to mind. Some Teachers are either just to "cool" at School and they reap variants of the above post from students. Or you get the other extreme, the millitary type who's up for flogging students and their parents and anyone else who's up for it.

One things for sure, RES-PECT is painfully hard to regain once it withers and fades, hence the overturned desk instead of a tap on the desk and gentle cough?

I had an American colleague who, whilst teaching in New Jersey, tried to detain 3 students after class for a pep talk. They refused to this. So he stood by the door and funnelled the rest of the class out. He said they were stood by the door facing him, twitching, f'ing and blinding... Shall I stop here?

Quick ending: Light switch, pepper spray and chair in hand.
Oh, and resignation letter.

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

Bloody hell... And I thought I had it bad in London. At least my students want to learn...

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

I've got nothing bad to say about the teacher. In fact I've been quite tempted to do a few of those things myself. As the old history teacher who I did my student teaching with said, "Who gives a beep if they like you? Do they learn from you?" His classroom control techniques were almost mythological. About 15 years ago he threw a desk across the room. Every year the students passsed down the story. His classroom control was phenomenol.

I'd be interested to hear the outcome of the teacher's efforts. I'd also like to know how the Japanese teacher reacted. The danger of doing such a bold act of classroom management is that if it fails, you have very few other options.