Job Discussion Forums

[TaoyuanSteve]

I tend to agree with the last poster. It is fine to post one's opinions on a board like this, even if they are somewhat unwarranted, negative opinions. Reading these boards is sometimes like reading someone's diary; you get to see the progession of one's life in Taiwan. In Stayingpower's case, he posted about a negative experience with an employer and hinted that he was having difficulty in his job search. He garnered much sympathy for his plight early on. I can't help but feel that his particular case is much like a friend who's gone through rough times. Early on, people support their friend, try to soothe him and give him options. However, if that friend is still on about the same thing months on, the tune might change to "ok, it's time to move on." Later still, these friends may become annoyed at their companion's broken record immitation.

I see a fair bit of this going on in Staying power's case. Most here have been supportive. However, as time went on his tune didn't change, he was still whining about Hess, aparently was still unemployed and-- in the latest twist-- turned to bashing Taiwan as a tefl market generally, suggesting those who choose to work here do so because they love lawlessness and immorality.

Stayingpower is entitled to these views and no one is preventing him from posting them. However, this is a forum and that means we get to post our own opinions about what he chooses to write here. If his opinions are uninformed and his attacks on companies are baseless, then I think we have the right to rebuttal.

[Aristotle]

[demaratus]

[movinaround]

[demaratus]

For the record, movinaround pretty much agreed with everything I said (except #7 for which I have no knowledge about korea yet).

Yeah guys I rock. haha, jk

[StayingPower]

D___________________, you're wrong with many of your points, and conclusions. Korea does not offer a severance pay as a means of getting you out of the country. By and large, they do this so that you'll finish the contract!

Getting a bad apartment? Many negotiate with their employer as to where they'll live. Some get three bedroom apts, others ask the employer to move them if they're dissatisfied.

Overtime? My point was you usually only work 30 hours. You're using fecetious reseoning here. Yes, some may have to work 35-40 hours and get paid for 30, but by and large, these jobs are not popular.

Extra work? You can get many one-on-one jobs with professionals, like dentists and doctors, for $30.00 an hour. Your employer will sometimes offer this, others times you just do it behind their backs.

Vacation time? Let's see. When I was there I got Chuseok(a 3 day paid holiday,) Lunar New Years, Christmas, Arbor Day, Children's Day, Confuc. Birthday etc., plus 10 days paid vacation of my own.

There's much, much more about Korea you may, or may not, find more accommodating as far as employer/employee relationships. But, you'll have to put up with alot more stress.

[demaratus]

[Dr_Zoidberg]

Before I came to Taiwan, there was another poster on here that did nothing but post about how awful Taiwan was, and how much he hated it. That prompted me to promise myself that when Taiwan got to where I couldn't stand it any more, I would do myself a favour and go home. If anyone else on here is at the point where they can no longer stand Taiwan, they have the same option.

[Aristotle]

[clark.w.griswald]

[StayingPower]

D________, you haven't the experience there(in Korea,) to be so dogmatic and presumptuous, and it's a wonder you're saying that I'm ". . . in the minority." This comment, by the way, is sheer character assasination, immature, and rather clickish sounding. Then another joins in.

This is what I'm fed up with about this board. Some think they've the right to lash out at others who see things differently, and this they do rather ignorantly.

You've never been to Korea, and yet you stand in the place of judgment? And as for the other comment by ____________, who's complaining about Taiwan? Am I really offending you by these comparisons?

Come on, take a look at your reasoning. Look at mine.

NO, OVERTIME IS NOT EXPECTED OF YOU BEYOND THIRTY HOURS IN KOREA!! Believe me, I've worked there for six years. Only once or twice was I expected to work overtime without getting paid. And NEVER WAS I ACTUALLY ASKED TO PREPARE LESSONS! I chose to do this on my own.

And YES, ANYTHING TEACHING WISE BEYOND THIRTY HOURS PER WEEK IS DEFINITELY OVERTIME! This means those oh, so subtle Saturdays you might have to do something extra.

And HOLIDAYS? YOUR POINT WAS THAT TAIWAN OFFERS MORE HOLIDAYS, THEREFORE MAKING IT MORE GENEROUS. I, HOWEVER, HAD SAID THAT IN KOREA 'YOU HAVE PAID HOLIDAYS,' AND PROBABLY EVEN MORE! PLUS, YOU HAVE VACATION TIME!

AND ONCE MORE, NO, NO, NO, NO IS SEVERANCE PAY IN KOREA IN ANY WAY EQUATED WITH HOOD-WINKING, BAMBOOZLING, DECEIVING OR CHEATING!! On the contrary, it's an incentive and reward, and one many, many there have found to be rewarding.

Oh, there are those who've lost out here, but YOUR COMMENTS THAT SEVERANCE PAY IS A MEANS OF GETTING ONE OUT OF THE COUNTRY IS JUST DOWN RIGHT IGNORANT MAN! AND THAT IT'S A HOAX, WHERE MANY GET CHEATED(BY THE WAY, WHO'S COMPLAINING NOW?) IS SPECIOUS REASONING.

There's so much more. But my main objective, unlike yours, was not to "complain," but to make a comparison, and that to make people more aware.

The world of ESL is much softer and accommodating in other parts of the world.

But like it was said by Aristotle, ". . .some are cowards", thereby making Taiwan a trap FOR EXPATS WHO'VE REALIZED HOW THEY SHOULD BE TREATED.

[Serious_Fun]

[demaratus]

Stayingpower, you need to go back to school because it doesnt seem like you understand anything you are reading here.

What's with the _____ stuff anyways? You are right, I have not worked in Korea (and I will be going there so there must be some incentives right?). And I have no right to post expert advice on the conditions there. I have never posted anything about Korea as an expert and have made my status quite clear. But thanks for clairifying what was already painfully clear. However I have friends that have worked in both (most had a good experience overall) and have read this and many other boards to research the current conditions. It is not character assasination, i have no interest in assasinating your "character". Btw, since your character on this board has consisted of nothing more than unqualified criticisms of Taiwan on many levels, and showing a fanboy attitude towards everything Aristotle says, why should anyone show you any respect?

As for your points I will address them one more time:

Overtime: Working a salaried job is a matter of choice for people. Some like it beause it means that they work 30 hours max in a contract. This is actually appealing to me, but its not to everyone. Some people have priorities outside of work, and in Taiwan some people have hourly wages that are are better than an average Korean salaried hagwon job. Some, but not most.

Your comparisons dont offend me, but your attitude and tone do. You talk about having 6 years experience in Korea, but how much experience do you have in Taiwan,and where did you have it? Somewhere like Hess for under a yeardoesn't exactly give a person a picture of what Taiwan has to offer. Perhaps you are not qualified to make any comparisons.

You were never asked to plan lessons in 6 years in Korea. Are you trying to imply that this is the norm? Not being expected to plan lessons is this a good thing? Or are you implying that though its not asked it is expected? Either way can you see how niether scenario is proving anything positive for you?

Holidays. Like I have maintained from the start this is a matter of opinion. You get an average of 10 days paid in korea on top of public holidays, and you get an average of 4 weeks unpaid in Taiwan. Does a person want more holidays or less-but-compensated holidays? This is purely a matter of personal choice, and I did not say that it is more generous, only that it was better for me. However you have been saying that Korea actually offers better Vacation, trying to convince people that your opinion is better than other peoples without proving anything. Hate to break it to you, Korean hogwan jobs offer less vacation than buxibans in Taiwan (look at the job listings if you doubt this).

I agree that severance is a reward if you get it. My original resonse to your unfair comparison was that while Korean jobs usually pay this generous bonus, some Taiwanese schools also offer bonuses and incentives (in my case several throughout a year). I have never heard of a teacher in Taiwan being fired without cause, so that their school could try to get out of paying severance or airfare. However this is a far to often complaint by teachers in Korea on this and other boards.

For the record I haven't complained about anything on this board, you and your "bff" Aristotle seem to post nothing but complaints and negative jibberish all the time. Re-read your posts and mine and maybe you can see the difference between an attempt at objectivity (mine) and a flat out bias yours). Good luck to you in Korea.

[Dr_Zoidberg]

[Aristotle]