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Work for Non Native English Speakers
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The Voice Of Reason



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that more so than a more seemingly justifiable preference for native English-speaking teachers (although there is this), there�s an unjust preference for white-skinned teachers. I think the often seen �Native English-speaking teachers only� �qualification� can be viewed more so as �white teachers only�. I think that for many of us foreign teachers in China, we are here, a job secured, by virtue of our primary qualification, being a Whitey.
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eslstudies



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely, and I think I've made that point on this thread.
By the time I finally convinced my last school in China that the black American candidate was the best, she'd moved on. At least they weren't so tardy with the next best credentialled, an Indian girl, who turned out to be a very good teacher.
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englishgibson



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well said both of ya above

now, i'd say that the "native" or "none native" teachers is a bit unjustified ... i'd go further and say it's a form of "racism" in the biz of education Wink

with respect to the thread's title, it might be misleading to some ... when i read it for the first time and before i clicked on it, it gave me that impression of "native teachers working under the management of none native ones" Embarassed

so, how do/would you guys feel working under a "none native" but language proficient academic manager?

peace to all "natives" as well as "none natives"
and
cheers and beers to all hard working FTs in china Very Happy

_____________________________________________________________
i just express my opinion on forums
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Plan B



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Shenzhen

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steppenwolf wrote:

I attended some Mandarin class under a German tutor whose competence was second to nobody's; he had the added advantage of looking at Chinese from a western vantage point, thus offering rational insights that CHinese can't deliver. He was never content having us repeat translated sentences after him without giving us accurate instructions on how to correct our mistakes. In 3 months I learnt more from that guy than I ever learnt from any Chinese teacher.


While I generally agree with you, I feel that I must put this into context with previous statements you have made which seem to contradict the above....

You have often stated the importance that Chinese students learn in a 100% L2 English environment - again, I agree with you, for the same reasons that you argued.....

I imagine that the rational insights into the Chinese language offered by the German teacher as well as the clear and accurate instructions were provided in English.

In other words, you suggest that learning Chinese in L1 has been the most successful method for you, but maintain that students should be in an exclusively L2 environment.

The intent is not to catch you out, as I think you argue both cases well. Rather - to clear up this ambiguity.
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Plan B



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Shenzhen

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Voice Of Reason wrote:
I think that more so than a more seemingly justifiable preference for native English-speaking teachers (although there is this), there�s an unjust preference for white-skinned teachers. I think the often seen �Native English-speaking teachers only� �qualification� can be viewed more so as �white teachers only�. I think that for many of us foreign teachers in China, we are here, a job secured, by virtue of our primary qualification, being a Whitey.


& what eslstudies said.......


Totally agree.

For both a German and Mexican teacher I previously worked with - both sporting light complexions - the country of origin never seemed to come up. In contrast, a black South African I worked with, who I regard very highly, was often held into question. Black Americans are somewhat immune from critisism due to their high profile in the American media.
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jammish



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 1704

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Um Reply with quote

Plan B wrote:


....but surely South Africans ARE native speakers of English - especially white South Africans, who have no historical alternative.

Unless you are referring to a definition I often heard from my last employers - "Native Speakers from recognised English speaking countries" - a strange definition indeed, which impiles that if the student isn't aware of the official language of a country, then the teacher will somehow speak an inferior version of English.


Agreed, except that some white South Africans are primarily Afrikaans speakers, and only speak some English!

I agree though that in the case of "Anglo" white South Africans, this is no different to them being aussie/kiwi/british etc.
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JJ711



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
....but surely South Africans ARE native speakers of English - especially white South Africans, who have no historical alternative.

This statement might be misleading, based on the facts below:
"Afrikaans - Afrikaans has its roots in 17th century Dutch, with influences from English, Malay, German, Portuguese, French and some African languages. One of the first works of written Afrikaans was Bayaan-ud-djyn, an Islamic tract written in Arabic script by Abu Bakr..."
ref: http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/demographics/language.htm
Quote:
Agreed, except that some white South Africans are primarily Afrikaans speakers, and only speak some English! ...

I agree though that in the case of "Anglo" white South Africans, this is no different to them being aussie/kiwi/british etc.

Below are some facts that might clear up some confusion:
(Distribution of Language in South Africa by Demographic Group)

Distribution of Afrikaans speakers
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Steppenwolf



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plan B wrote:


While I generally agree with you, I feel that I must put this into context with previous statements you have made which seem to contradict the above....

You have often stated the importance that Chinese students learn in a 100% L2 English environment - again, I agree with you, for the same reasons that you argued.....

In other words, you suggest that learning Chinese in L1 has been the most successful method for you, but maintain that students should be in an exclusively L2 environment.

.


I see what you mean; let me explain.

I believe immersion in the target language must occur as soon as the language is being taught, i.e. first year. I had this in Mandarin classes at a Chinese university but we didn't learn Mandarin per se; we did sound imitating exercises ("pronunciation") and "intensive reading" though my command of Chinese characters was not up to that (because I was only a part-time student taking part in classes held for international fulltimers). Was English used? Yes in the intensive reading classes - to test our comprehension of the Chiense texts.
But the German instructor taught me at beginner's level; most or many dialogues were in Mandarin; it was in informal questions & answers interludes that he gave us his personal interpretation of Chinese culture.
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