Job Discussion Forums

[CMB]

I actually have no trouble believing the story about this Peruvian cleaning woman. I've been living in Barcelona for almost ten years, and historically, every 10 years or so the government grants amnesty / legal residence to all of the illegal immigrants who can prove, through bills, paperwork, library cards, etc. that they have been living in the country since a certain date and for more than a certain amount of time. The most recent example of this was last year, I believe. This is something that has happened in Spain several times, so it certainly is possible and I know a few American and South African English teachers who have become legal this way. However, you have to understand that this is the iniciative of whichever political party is in power and is always criticized by the opposition, so a lot depends on the changing politics of the country. Additionally, there has been a HUGE influx of illegal immigrants from South American and Africa in the past year and there is lots of talk of having stricter regulations on the legalization process to discourage people from coming over and just waiting for the next amnesty period.
To sum up:
-Has this happened before? - yes, several times.
-Should people come to Spain assuming that it will happen again?- Unless you're facing pretty dire circumstances in your home country (not usually the case with English teachers) I wouldn't risk it.
For Americans who want to live in Spain short term (a year or so) it's fairly easy to get by here without your visa (no advice or judgement here, just a fact). For Americans who want to live here long term I think it makes more sense to go another route (some possibilities: student visas, marrying a Spaniard, having a baby here, all things that can result in legal residence and are arguably easier than waiting around for a random government policy to change...)
Melissa

[bejarano]

You cannot compare a Peruvian to an American or an Australian as in regards getting your legal papers to work in Spain. If you are Peruvian there are a 1000 and 1 ways of becoming legal from having Spanish ancestry to joining the military. Don't ever think that you are going to have the same courtesies shown to you as an American as if you are
Peruvian/Cuban/Argentinian because you won't.

I love hearing how Australians and Americans think it is their god given right to trample across the planet and work anywhere they choose illegally but talk about immigration in reference to their own countries and they are the biggest nazis known to man!

Didn't the Australians send the SAS out to stop a boat of illegal Somalians from landing in western Australia? I think they did, an action Adolf Hitler would have approved of. Aren't the Americans going to build a wall/fence across the borders of another UN member state? I think they are! Who were the last regime to do this, was it the Soviet Union and they called it 'The Berlin Wall' I think it was!

As you know about illegal immigration in reference to your own countries, American/Australian etc illegal teachers get no health cover, social secuity benefits whilst driving down the wages for the legal workers who want to teach English in Spain. So it is a no win situation for us teachers and a win win situation for the bosses! You are no better than scab labour!

Though it might be worth when you go back to the states and Australia
you will chnage your bigoted, ill educated opinions on illegal workers who come to your country.

[Thomcat]

If ever I have heard a bigoted statement, it is yours! Do you think all Americans, Australians, etc. support all of their countries policies? Or that everyone from a particular country holds the same viewpoints? If not, it is not evident in your post. How do you know my, or anyone else's, opinion on illegal workers? Did you talk to 1,2. or 20 people from that country? You sound like some of the conservative, xenophobic nutjobs from my country.

At the end of your post you say that it might be worth having "us" come over there and work in order to change our ill-educated views on illegal immigration. Aren't your views the same as those that you have attributed to us?

I understand your frustration with low wages, but as with those here in my country who get mad at immigrants, I think it is misdirected.

[davsorresp]

A Spanish friend of mine is a labor attorney. He's told me that the majority of illegals in Spain are from South America. There are also people like me, my fellow Americans, Canadians etc. Don't get me wrong, I bear no grudge against South Americans these were the stats. he told me.

I once asked him why we never got tracked down, rounded up and deported. He smiled and said that it would cost the government too much money to do that for (according to him) almost a million people. So they just leave people alone unless they break the law. Then it's a different story altogether. The wierdest thing though was that he said, even without work papers etc. we had certain rights if we got mistreated by employers. Like if we get stiffed we can go to the labor ministry in Calle Princesa and file a complaint without any fear of getting rounded up and kicked out. It's the same thing with getting "empadronado". Once you've got it, you can apply to join the INSALUD state medical service. I haven't done this for personal reasons, but I know quite a few people that have.

Don't get me wrong, if I could get papers I would. My girlfriend is Spanish and if it works out we may get married, but I don't want to commit to that just to get papers. It's the wrong reason.

I don't understand why the Spanish government doesn't officially recognize the situation and give us some type of temporary contract. I don't know, 6 months renewable or whatever. That way we could work normally, we'd pay SS, taxes etc. and everyone wins. As they don't, life goes on with almost zero risk of getting kicked out of the country.

Maybe it's an egotistical thing to say but I don't consider myself a threat to Spain or to the Spanish. I don't rob people, break the law etc. In an ideal world we'd be able to get at least a temporary visa, be registered etc. I think all countries that have similar issues should do the same. Putting up fences or throwing people in jail is not the answer. Tolerance and acceptance of law-abiding people that do want to move and work somewhere else should be addressed.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth. Hope I don't get too many "crucify" him replies.

[sh07024]

Hi davsorresp!

I know exactly what you mean, I heard that as well, that Ministerio de Trabajo office in Calle Princesa. Anyways, there are non EUs working in Spain and some stay 6 months, 1 year , more years, no problems. Ok, I'm stating facts, not judgements. Spain is too cool to get all stressed out. The realities of non EU teachers teaching in vast numbers in Spain ... is for real! Ciao!

[snuffy519]

Bejarano, your loathing of America belongs on a socialist message board. Try Hillary Clinton's.

I am one of those "conservative, nutjobs," that EVERY EFL teacher claims to abhor. Although I'm not a "nutjob," I am conservative. Having worked in the U.S. foreign policy field for quite some time, there are hundreds of valid reasons for me to feel the way I do.

My free advice to America-haters: by comparing ANY American policy that you disagree with to the Nazis or the Soviets is minimizing HUGELY what those regimes stood for. It's intellectually lazy, too.

I do not think it's my God-given right (did a European say the word "God?") to work anywhere I please. In fact, what has kept me out of Spain is the fact that I am not legal to work there and I have no desire to break that country's laws. I have worked in Europe...legally...but despite the allure of Spanish culture and lifestyle, I wouldn't fulfill the hypocrisy that would be breaking its laws.

The U.S. is building a limited fence. Why? Do you know why?
When you can reply intelligently to anything substantive, do let the world know.

No, sorry, the U.S. can't in ANY way be compared to the Soviet Union. Not one. Why did I waste the time to type that? Because there are idiots out there like Bejarano (and many others) who think they have an insider's view on something other than a participle. You don't. Trust me. I'm looking out for ya'.

Illegal immigration is a crime. Plain and simple. Illegal immigrants, who bypass the long line to become legal to get into the U.S., should be deported. Businesses who employ them should be fined. None of this is bigotry. It is the belief that if you want to come to America, you should simply wait your turn and do so legally. Sound familiar?

Bejarano and ilk, LIVE in America for a while before you comment on social policy. Not 6 months or 2 years...10 years, 15 years....or you can continue to make patently false analogies on an EFL message board to all your fellow EFL teachers who, despite the cliche, think just like you.