|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: debate in KSA |
 |
|
Yes, lots of examples of how you twist and mangle...All cultures do include Saudis. Yes I said "MOST" not "ALL" Saudis, therefore this is one example of how you misconstru what I am trying to say! We all speak from our own experiences.
I didn't say "all cultures except for Saudis" You have said "except for Saudis" not me.
You are projecting your own biased slant into what I am trying to say. So there you go misconstruing (twisting and mangling) what I am trying to say!
And yes one can think critically in any language, however I was trying to express that Saudis have difficulty thinking and reasoning in English.
As you so clearly state; Yes we all have problems expressing ourselves in a second language.
Since this is the 'Saudi Forum', I am expressing my opinion about Saudis difficulty in expressing opinions and debating in their second language ENGLISH; not all cultures, and not in all languages. That's why we are here - to discuss Saudis and their learning English on the 'Saudi Forum'.
I never said that Saudis can not debate in their Arabic language! You implied this! You are coloring everything I am saying through your particularly biased lense. This is another example of how you misconstru what I have said!
You read everything through your biased filter and therefore your not understanding what I am trying to say. You already have 'set in stone' opinions about the topic. You misinterpret everything I say, remove your filter and biased glasses and you might be able to read properly what it is I am saying.
I don't think I need to justify myself to you any more. I tried, guess I just didn't get through your thick filter. If you don't understand what I have said, then so be it.
I concede. You are the better debater since you have had much more experience in debate on this board than I have. You are such a wizard with the English language. Lastly you are just so darn adept at the cutting and pasting everything out of context; just too hard for me to keep up with you!
I am sure you will have something to say about this as well...LOL cut and paste to your hearts content! Yes this comment is meant to be a diversion away from the topic...you win  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I didn't say "all cultures except for Saudis" You have said "except for Saudis" not me. |
Aside from the fact that this 'example' comes after you wrote that I 'mangle' what you were saying, the fact remains that you did say that generally speaking, Saudis lack debating skills. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, of course, even if I disagree with it, but it's annoying when people say something, and then try to back away from it.
| Quote: |
| I never said that Saudis can not debate in their Arabic language! |
Well, you kinda sorta did. As in...
| Quote: |
| In KSA students have yet to get to that point because society in general does not condone open critcism or debate; as well there are so many topics that are taboo and debate is considered controversial. |
| Quote: |
| nor do they have the skills to debate or think critically. |
| Quote: |
| "most" students I have taught do not know how to debate topics for lack of critical thinking skills, |
| Quote: |
| students never question what they are told. |
I could go on, but I think it's fairly clear that you were talking about Saudi students in general, not simply as regards their English language skills. In the penultimate quote you make that fairly obvious, since you say quite clearly that Saudi students' supposed lack of debating skills is due to their 'lack of critical thinking skills' not English language skills.
| Quote: |
| your biased filter |
You use the word 'biased' several times in your post. I'm wondering what you mean by it. If you are suggesting that my experience in KSA has led me to have certain opinions about that country and its people, then you'd be right. Are you saying that you are entirely 'objective' about Saudi students? Because it certainly doesn't seem to me that you are. Nor should you be, of course, but I find your accusation of 'bias' a bit odd, not to mention something of a red herring.
| Quote: |
| the cutting and pasting everything out of context; |
Ah yes, 'out of context', that old standby. I'll let other posters be the judge of how I ignored the 'context' of the quotes pasted above. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You're right Cleo; cmp45 has been backtracking so fast that we now have no idea where he stands.
I don't think there is a single poster to this forum capable of giving an informed answer to the question. The reason is that we are normally teaching students before they do their major, or are teaching them credits that have marginal relevance to their degree.
If we want to know about the quality of higher education in Saudi we need the opinion of the chemists, and engineers and mathematicians and computer scientists who can compare the quality of their graduates with the equivalent in the home country. From those I have spoken to the opinion is that in many cases the quality is comparable (in those where it is not the problem is that they are studying in a foreign language they don't understand sufficiently). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Queen of Sheba
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 397
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| saudimad wrote: |
I attended all the days of the conference to see what was happening in KSA and got to speak to much of the ESL department while there. I heard much rambling theory and saudi applause to much that went over their heads. Many nods and smiles but no substance at all. The question still stands, in the view of teachers in KSA, is there any quality in Saudi Education? Why not?
What should al-yamamah be doing when it is said that teacher motivation is at all time low, many teachers are so fed up that they are leaving and policies are being thrown out the window? (so i hear) |
Most conferences are full of rambling theory that is what guest speakers are asked to do - ramble and theorize. There was no substance because the concept of quality is so new to the kingdom. The whole point of Quality Management Systems was overlooked and the intellectual comprehension seems to be based on the concept of Quality in books, classes and teachers alone. There are no Quality Assurance systems, policies, procedures, chain of command or adherence to international QA laws of ISO in Saudi's higher education system, and this is what the speakers were talking about as well. I think many of us who work in KSA would confer that quality systems are lacking and in dire need of being placed accross the administrative levels in particular.
By the way, I did not find Al Yamamah teachers to be lacking motivation, and no teachers are leaving, and no policies are being thrown out the window. If you know otherwise, why don�t you elaborate, otherwise it just sounds like rambling theory. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
