|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mineposa2
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 15
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: Westgate opinions and gaijin houses in perfectures |
 |
|
Hi
I've read a lot about Westgate on this forum, but just want to get some recent personal accounts.
Let me explain a little about me: I worked for 1 1/2 years in Korea and loved Japan when visiting. I plan on starting grad. school in the fall so am looking for a short term contract that pays airfare.
So Westgate seems perfect. I just want to make sure that my vision of Westgate life matches average experience, as there are some very negative things on this forum.
Also bear in mind that in Korea I worked for CDI, if anyone knows it, at the main branch in Chungdahm. It was very intense teaching at large coporation, in fact Westgate seems to be a very similar kind of large english co.
The pont is I can handle long intense classes and a lot of prep time, but I don't want to in Japan.
Here's my vision of Westgate's University program:
1. Possible long commute (I have books)
2. Animate university kids to speak around the lesson, not too difficult material, not a lot of content to cover.
3. Have time during prep periods to FULLY prepare the next day's lessons.
4. Spend rest of time on campus shooting the shit with students.
5. Not anything, or very few things, work related to do outside of on campus time.
6. Enjoy a generally relaxed life as long as I fulfill duties.
How accurate is this?
Another thing. I requested to be in a smaller city (in Fukushima perfecture). Yet WC will charge me 81,000--the same as Tokyo--for an apartment. I know gaijin houses can be cheaper, I'm wondering aobut conditions in gaijin houses and whether or not anyone knows how to find them in perfectures. ...I didn't find anything on this site.
A final question. It's March 7th. The contract starts May 1st. I have given the interview and am waiting for an offer. Is there really going to be enough time for them to get visa paperwork together for me to start in May?
Thanks in advance! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I never worked for Westgate, but here is a 2002 report from someone who did. I'm posting only the info on teaching hours because the rest does not seem relevant.
I taught 7 40-min. classes per day. Actually, 2 or 3 days a week it was 6 classes but then you would have "English Challenge" for the additional period to make 7.
Teaching that many classes per day doesn't seem to leave much time, if any, during the day for shooting the breeze with people or with planning lessons. I suspect your lesson planning may come from Westgate, but I don't know for sure. You may have to do it all on your own at night.
Also, I teach university students right now, and I wouldn't say they were animated in the least. Most just need to show up for 80% of their classes (some only 60%) in order to pass the class! You may have 20-120 kids in one class, too. Don't know if Westgate has a limit on that sort of thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Glenski, you love posting on the old Westgate threads don't you?
OP, as Glenski pointed out, he has never worked for Wesgate.
Your vision is pretty accurate actually. I was impressed to tell you the truth.
I know people who lived in a gaijin house for the duration, and they didn't have a problem with it. It depends on what you're after really. They are basic, usually with a shared kitchen and bathroom.
Regards the visa; no problem. There is plenty of time. Remember that Westgate do this twice a year for 100 teachers. They're pretty good at it.
good luck and have fun. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mineposa2
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Glenski
In Westgate's info they say you'll have 1 or 2 preparation periods during your obligatory 9 hours on campus, and usually have only 1 or 2 different types of classes a day. And then you have this English Challenge thing where you just hang out with the students talking...that's what I meant by shooting the breeze.
I also said that I was expecting to animate the students, not that the students would be animated already. I've taught in Asia. I know how much fun English learning is for everyone and how excited they get about it.
Also, these classes are not university classes, but Westgate classes, according to WC I have a max of 15 students per class, but usually less.
My biggest concern is having to spend a significant amount of time off campus preparing for work. I did this in Korea and didn't mind, but I'm looking to relax a bit before starting a rigorous six year long grad. program. In Sept. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zorro (3) wrote: |
| OP, as Glenski pointed out, he has never worked for Wesgate. |
And as Zorro has pointed out in the past, he still works for Westgate--in a (low) managerial role (having "jumped through all the Westgate hoops" and "been noticed by those who count"). Hence, it's in a sense his job to defend this company and get new employees to work for them. Considering how often he posts defenses of this organization here, I hope he's getting overtime. 
I've taught full-time at the university-level since 1990. Over these 17 years, I've gotten to know several people involved with Westgate. While I understand that some enjoy it, I personally would never work for the company. It's a mind numbing job they do, with simply horrible working conditions. My favorites: the no overnight guest policy in their housing, the very high rent, the no absences ever rule, and the three-month employment term with what used to be non-consecutive renewals (to "keep the meat fresh," as one Westgate manager told me once over beers). You are treated--on and off campus--as either a scab (by the regular Japanese and foreign faculty), an immature albeit trainable monkey (by your Westgate handler) or a glorified NOVA instructor (by your students). Combine this with the low pay for some really long hours, and you have (what I think to be) a bad deal.
Still, again, some people do like it (after all, you get airfare and that nice working visa for just 3 months of work...). Also, for some people, it's the best they can do. I don't begrudge the latter; I also think mineposa2 has the right attitude (realistic) to be successful and reasonably happy at this job.
The (paid) cheerleaders, though, need to give it a rest.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
To clear up a few of the grand dispersions that have been cast.
I do not work for Westgate now and I never will again. Not because I didn't enjoy the experience, but because I intend on getting out of ESL/EFL. I wasn't in a (low) management job with them, but you are right; I have mentioned that it is possible to reach the management level (low of course because I'm an idiot).
| Quote: |
it's a mind numbing job they do, with simply horrible working conditions. My favorites: the no overnight guest policy in their housing, the very high rent, the no absences ever rule, and the three-month employment term with what used to be non-consecutive renewals (to "keep the meat fresh," as one Westgate manager told me once over beers). You are treated--on and off campus--as either a scab (by the regular Japanese and foreign faculty), an immature albeit trainable monkey (by your Westgate handler) or a glorified NOVA instructor (by your students). Combine this with the low pay for some really long hours, and you have (what I think to be) a bad deal.
|
This is one of the funniest loads of tripe I've ever read. Keep up the good work.
"I once knew a friend of a friends neighbour who knew someone who worked for x company and they told me that they didn't like it". BRILLIANT.
People ask for information about Westgate on this forum. I'm in a position to give it to them. Simple as that.
Sorry if it offends you. If it does then don't read it.
Also, just for the record, I'm doing my masters this year, and then I'm going to do a PHD; all in the hope that one day I can be as clever as you.
I bow down to your superiority old man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I do not work for Westgate now and I never will again. |
Didn't you write recently that you'd been promoted to writing curriculum for Westgate? (Don't have time now, so I'll search for that post later....)
Regardless, read through all the posts from the various Zorros--all written in the same tone and most (80%) gushing about the wonders of Westgate--from over the last three years. That someone would get kicked off this forum for being abusive in his defense of an organization, then return and (yet again) be abusive in his defense of that same organization--with that organization's defense being apparently his main (only?) reason for being here--well, if you're not management, then counseling may be an option.
| Quote: |
| This is one of the funniest loads of tripe I've ever read. Keep up the good work. |
Really? Which part was wrong then? The rules I mention have all recently been discussed here by other posters (all current or soon-to-be employees) as well. The (low) salary is up on the Westgate website. Verification of Japanese and foreign faculty attitudes towards the dispatch "scabs" can be found on numerous faculty/union websites--in Japanese and in English. Yeah, I guess I just wrote a load of tripe.... 
I can't wait to read your response to this one, by the way. Will you insult my mother this time? How about my dog?
| Quote: |
| People ask for information about Westgate on this forum. I'm in a position to give it to them. Simple as that. |
Good deal. Same as me--indeed, dare I say I know just a bit more about university-related employment in this country than you? Regardless, if you don't like my (or Glenski's, or anybody else's) posts, then don't read the darn things!!!!
| Quote: |
| Sorry if it offends you. If it does then don't read it. |
I'm not offended one bit. 
| Quote: |
| Also, just for the record, I'm doing my masters this year, and then I'm going to do a PHD; |
Well, good luck with that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
This was one of the posts:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?p=501773&highlight=#501773
| zorro (3) wrote: |
There are several different contracts.
Standard 3 months teaching English as an extra curricular option for the students. 4 & 5 month accredited courses (usually reserved for returnees or highly qualified teachers). Office based curriculum development, which means you can stay indefinitely. This is for the experienced Westgaters only. As I said before, for those who are interested in this, you need to work hard and jump through the Westgate hoops. You'll get recognised and jobs will be offered (if there are any). 7 month contract (not sure if this is kiddies or not). |
Though you're right, Zorro, you never explicitly say you are either in management or are currently employed. My mistake there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Glenski, you love posting on the old Westgate threads don't you?
OP, as Glenski pointed out, he has never worked for Wesgate. |
What has that got to do with anything? I posted in red bold what someone else said to me personally about his experience there. It's the only information he gave me, but I was willing to share it.
You, zorro, on the other hand, seem to relish some pseudo-superiority complex because you used to work there, yet your sharing of information seems to be at your whim, and sparsely at that. Just an observation. Why is it that you don't tell people more? You're a prime resource, but I would never go to you for info on Westgate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
mineposa,
Thanks for the update. I was not aware of the class sizes, but I knew that they were certainly not university-style courses.
As for the prep time, here's what I snipped off WC's web site:
| Quote: |
On-Campus Hours:
On-campus work hours will differ from school to school (e.g., 8:50 a.m.- 5:50 p.m., 9:00 a.m.- 6:00 p.m., 10:00 a.m.- 7:00 p.m., 11:00 a.m.- 8:00 p.m.). A member of the supervisory staff will inform the on-campus work hours during the training period. Pursuant to Westgate's contract with our university and junior college clients, instructors are to be physically present at their assigned campus for nine consecutive hours each teaching day. The "on-campus" hours do NOT include commuting time.
Teaching Schedule:
Each school day consists of 9-12 class periods. Instructor will teach a maximum of seven classes a day, requiring one to three lesson plans. In addition, instructors will have one or two preparation periods and one period for a break. Instructors will spend the rest of the day for lunch and what we call "English Challenge," when students can ask specific questions about English or study special topics. English Challenge gives the instructor and the students a unique opportunity to get to know one another and to learn more about each other's countries. |
I knew this, too, but was just quoting what another person who used to work there had told me. Sounds like a LONG day if you ask me, even with small classes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
| Sounds like a LONG day if you ask me, even with small classes. |
Come on, Glenski--don't you know by now that the stuff posted on the Westgate website is all "tripe"? E.g., the posted salary, absence policy, workload, etc.--all lies spread by, uh, evil university teachers.
As his response to my similar post demonstrated, Zorro's disturbing 3-year old obsession with Westgate will not allow for contradiction--even by Westgate itself.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JJJJJ
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 9
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: Westgate Opinions |
|
|
| (1) If you want to read a little about Westgate, c/o "Westgate: One Woman's Experience" posted about a week ago under "Westgate: Good and Bad points." A few of the sentences from that posting "... Sex, drugs, alcohol, and fighting were rampant in my apartment building along with serious damage done by drunken teachers to more than one apartment. When it came time to re-contract, none of the competent instructors I knew did, although the student-chasing teacher noted above was anxious to sign on the dotted line...." I neglected to note that there was also a stabbing incident in that building--and more-- which may account for the reason that teachers are no longer sharing 3-bedroom apts--or so I am told. (2) It appears that Westgate wants no part of competent, experienced instructors. They reject teachers with years of experience and graduate degrees for those just entering the ESL market. It seems to me that qualified instructors would �rock their boat,� and threaten their program in so much as they would soon learn how poorly grounded in teaching true communication skills the Westgate curriculum is. Recent postings re: Westgate not rehiring, if that is true, would bear that out. It doesn�t take a college degree for one to realize that students are not going to learn English in the way it is presented by Westgate. I trust that Westgate has a few (or even several) M.A. degree holders for the sole purpose of enhancing their own standing as a body of educators which they can show to the universities that hire them. (3) Although a standard curriculum is in place, a competent instructor will have to devote time to preparation, a minimum of a couple of hours a night depending on the number of different courses one is assigned. A number of teachers have stated that their experience at Westgate was slave labor. Believe them!! These are the facts; I lived them. (4) As for gaijin houses: I've spent years intermittently teaching in Japan. Every gaijin house I ever saw reflected slum conditions and/or a backpacker's choice of accomodations due to "budgetary restrictions." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow. Thanks for all the attention.
So now that we've established that I don't work for Westgate, and that I did not work in a management capacity, I'm being framed for being a 'Westgate addict'.
Nice. In fact you're probably right. I am an addict. I can't get enough of them. This is the only place where I can get my hit.
Looks like I'll have to be more explicit with my information to help you to understand work with Westgate from a non-combatitive perspective.
| Quote: |
| It's a mind numbing job they do, with simply horrible working conditions |
This is not true. The working conditions are fine. I've taught in two different universities. The first one - the hours were 09:00-18:00 (horrendously long for these pompous university 'professors' I know, but not for the 'idiots who can only get work with Westgate'). Within these compulsory office hours I taught between 5 and 7 40 minute classes per day. At the first university they were the same class, at the second I taught two different levels and so had two preps to do. On the days when I was teaching 5 classes, I had the famous 'English Challenge'. When any of the students actually came to these classes (40 mins same as above), we simply talked. This was not strenuous or taxing in any way shape or form and was (dare I say it) sometimes even �fun�.
The physical conditions were brilliant at the places I worked. The Westgate teachers had their own LARGE office space with lots of ESL/EFL teaching materials (supplied by the demonic Westgate). We even got our own desk which we could put our toys in...
| Quote: |
| the no overnight guest policy in their housing |
I can understand that this 'rule' may seem a little strange. Please bear in mind that the only reason they put this here is because the average age of a Westgate teacher is probably around 27 (can you remember that far back Glenski and Taki? ). This means that people of this age are more likely to have 'fun'. If the average age was 45 then this rule would not be necessary. Fortunately for me this was not the case otherwise I'm sure I'd be writing a whole different story here.
| Quote: |
| the very high rent |
81,000 per month. It is higher than if you were able to get your own apartment. But then getting your own apartment entails paying key money and rent up front. I believe that I�ve read before that this is around 5 months rent. Quick edjumicatted calculation (imagine my tongue out now�.) 5 x 55,000 (about the price of a reasonable place) = 275,000. 3 x 81,000 (Westgate provided Leopalace) = 243,000. Of course, on various other posts you will read that Westgate (who incidentally are the devil incarnate) are skimming about 25,000 yen per month off of each teacher's rent. The money for this they are putting towards funding third world poverty and starvation. I have never read any proof of these figures though so please take them with a pinch of salt.
| Quote: |
| the no absences ever rule |
Yes IMO this is a horrendous expectation of Westgates. Fancy requiring your employees to actually go to work. My word. What is the world coming to? This rule simply states that if you are absent due to illness you MAY be required to make up the classes that you missed at a later date. If you don't then you will not be paid for the days you missed. There are many jobs that will not pay you for sick days within your first three months of employment.
With regards to other days off, depending on which term you are working there are several days off. In the autumn term there are more - some universities have a week off, others get three days. Then there are the bank holidays which I can't remember. In the Spring term there are at least two days off.
| Quote: |
| and the three-month employment term with what used to be non-consecutive renewals (to "keep the meat fresh," as one Westgate manager told me once over beers |
This is an opinion. There's not really much for me to say here.
| Quote: |
| You are treated--on and off campus--as either a scab (by the regular Japanese and foreign faculty), |
This is simply not true. This is referring to the author's political standings on the issue of 'dispatch' companies making his job security vulnerable. The word 'scab' indicates this quite clearly. I have NEVER been treated like this. I played football and drank beer with the Japanese and foreign faculty. I did get a few scabs from being tackled too hard, but that's about it (sorry a terrible attempt at humour).
| Quote: |
| Verification of Japanese and foreign faculty attitudes towards the dispatch "scabs" can be found on numerous faculty/union websites--in Japanese and in English. |
Same as this. Totally unrelated to the reality of working at the university. This is purely political.
| Quote: |
| an immature albeit trainable monkey (by your Westgate handler) |
I can't believe that I'm even responding to this one. 'handler'. nice makes it sound like we're dogs. This simply shows your age and utter monkeyism. What have the monkeys done to deserve being put in the same sentence as Westgaters?
| Quote: |
| a glorified NOVA instructor (by your students). |
This is conjecture again. How does a student treat a teacher like a NOVA instructor? Could you elaborate on this please? My students treated me with the utmost respect (but I thought that was a cultural thing).
| Quote: |
| Combine this with the low pay for some really long hours, and you have |
The pay is relative. Compared to your fat wadge perphaps it is low. 275,000 per month is actually on the higher side of average from a quick glance at the listings on ohayosensei. The long hours are fictitious. See above.
| Quote: |
| Regardless, read through all the posts from the various Zorros--all written in the same tone and most (80%) gushing about the wonders of Westgate--from over the last three years. |
So I've been posting for three years. I didn't realise you were counting Taki, but thanks for the attention sweetheart.
| Quote: |
| That someone would get kicked off this forum for being abusive in his defense of an organization, then return and (yet again) be abusive in his defense of that same organization--. |
Again, this is simply not true. If I had been kicked off, do you think that Dave would have allowed me back? I know I was sneaky and added a (2) onto my second name, and then a (3) onto my third, but please give somebody some credit!!! I'm sure they would have seen through my evil guise MWAH HA HA HA HA HA....
| Quote: |
| with that organization's defense being apparently his main (only?) reason for being here--well, if you're not management, then counseling may be an option |
You're hoping that people won't do a search and find other threads that I have posted on now aren't you? If anyone can be bothered to research this dull, uninteresting person then please feel free. You will see that I don't only post on Westgate threads. My, my, my.
| Quote: |
| You, zorro, on the other hand, seem to relish some pseudo-superiority complex because you used to work there, yet your sharing of information seems to be at your whim, and sparsely at that. Just an observation. Why is it that you don't tell people more? You're a prime resource, but I would never go to you for info on Westgate. |
I hope that I have imparted some knowledge in the above. I'm sorry if at times I can't be bothered to answer trivialities about what the students eat for breakfast. Come on Glenski. You know how this feels. Look back at the amount of times you have 'politely' pointed people to the search function of this website.
| Quote: |
| I knew this, too, but was just quoting what another person who used to work there had told me. Sounds like a LONG day if you ask me, even with small classes. |
7 x 40 mins = 4 hours 40 mins of teaching. This is worst case scenario.
Probability.
5 x 40 mins = 3 hours 20 mins of teaching. + potentially 1 x 40 min English challenge.
Seriously. It is NOT a long day. Please believe me. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!! 
As for JJJJJ's post. I've got to say that I'm very surprised to hear this. In the times that I was at Westgate nothing of the kind ever occurred. The stabbing business - Was this a Westgate teacher involved? If not, unfortunately Westgate don't promise that you won't get stabbed when you come to Japan. There are some things that even the most controlling employers can not control.
| Quote: |
| It doesn�t take a college degree for one to realize that students are not going to learn English in the way it is presented by Westgate. |
Westgate use a mix of audiolingualism with communicative approaches to language learning. You could argue that audiolingualism is slightly old fashioned, but on the whole, there are useful elements that teachers use in mainstream EFL the world over (drilling being the main one). Communicative approaches are pretty current in the world of EFL. There is lots of groupwork, pairwork, free practice. This is the 'core' curriculum that Westgate provide. Individual teachers will bring with them their own beliefs about teaching and what works best. They will inevitably adapt the 'core' curriculum and introduce ideas from different EFL methodologies. This then gives the Westgate package a mainstream EFL/eclectic approach to language teaching.
| Quote: |
| Although a standard curriculum is in place, a competent instructor will have to devote time to preparation, a minimum of a couple of hours a night depending on the number of different courses one is assigned |
Actually it's the incompetent instructors who have to devote TWO HOURS a night prep for a forty minute class!!! You must be having a laugh here. Seriously. No wonder you thought it was slave labour!!!
I've finished.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Back to the OP.
| Quote: |
| My biggest concern is having to spend a significant amount of time off campus preparing for work. I did this in Korea and didn't mind, but I'm looking to relax a bit before starting a rigorous six year long grad. program. In Sept. |
You won't have to spend ANY time off campus preparing if you don't mind doing it during the day (in your prep periods which are very tempting to use as extra breaks). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dove
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: USA/Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Someone mentioned that the students will treat Westgate instructors like glorified Nova teachers. Hmmmm. I worked at NOVA many moons ago and while there I taught a lot of university students. I also teach private lessons to university students now. The comments I heard back then --and the ones I hear now--are not too favorable toward their university English classes and their university English professors....and I don't think they are talking about Westgate instructors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
