Job Discussion Forums

stoth1972

Having done the cowboy academy work myself, I don't know how to direct a friend (26) who has a year + of uni-level teaching under her belt and an MA TESOL. She would like to work in Spain. She's American. Are her chances for decent employment better w/ her qualifications?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Unfortunately the hiring laws don't recognize qualifications. I have an MA TESL/TEFL and nearly 10 years of experience, but I can't get a work permit for Spain (or Italy, or France, or the Netherlands....).

stoth1972 · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:42 am Post subject:

Thanks, spiral. She's open to where she would teach. I can only tell her what I knew of Spain 7 years ago. Madrid best employment opps, but what are the best places to work these days?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

An American with a related MA? Not Spain.

Middle East or Asis for remuneration. Central/Eastern Europe for livestyle, but not long term....because pay will never get one ahead.

The problem with the 'older' EU member countries is that North American citizens can't work legally. It makes for an ok gap year, if you're not really professional in the field, but for people with significant qualifications/experience, working illegally for subsistence pay is not the best option.

Caledonian Craig · Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 34

sorry to sound like a broken record, but hasn't this issue been dealt with numerous times on many, many different boards?do people still persist in asking, when they or their friend is not an EU national? Are we still unsure? Looking for the magical loophole which only applies to them?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Lotsa optimists out there, would be one way of putting it kindly.

Many people honestly aren't aware of the hiring laws within the EU. I don't mind repeating myself ad nauseum to people who genuinely ask for the info.

But when me and others are flamed for putting a damper on people's enthusiasm for working illegally - that gets annoying.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

This poster appears to be genuinely seeking info- not offensive, in my view.

stoth1972 · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject:

Thanks so much for your input, Craig "of 13 posts". I worked in Spain over 7 years ago. I know exactly what the situation was then for a person of my then limited skills and qualifications. As someone who spends more time on the Middle Eastern boards contributing (and answering the same questions again and again since searches don't always produce recent information) I don't stroll through here very often. Thanks so much for responding, though. Very insightful.

Spiral, can I ask what city you're in and what the best of the academy work is for N. Americans? I worked in Madrid as American Language Academy, and they were fair enough (decent salary at the time, emergency health insurance provided, month transportation allowance).

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I'm not working in Spain, because I can't work there legally.

I hold an MA TESL/TEFL and have 9 years of university experience, and there are places in Europe where I CAN live and work legally, thanks to my spouse's international company.

I don't honestly think that working without a work permit trip is worth it for professionals in our field.

My Spain/Italy/France info is based on my 7 years of experience working with training centres to get interviews for newly-qualified teachers. The many who are from EU member countries (usually UK, obviously) are obviously eligible for legal jobs. I very often have North Americans, Aussies, or Kiwis who hope and pray that some exception can be found for them, but it just nearly never happens.

So, yeah, I can tell you a bit about specific schools in Spain - but I can't tell you where your friend could find a legal job.

Lots of people are doing an illegal gap year - or two. It's pretty common. But your friend's overqualified for that kind of thing, it sounds like.

stoth1972 · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:15 am Post subject:

Well, the issue is that a lot of good gigs for qualified career TESOLers are not up for grabs to the recent grad of 26 years. She's too young for most stints in the ME, and doesn't fit the profile of the average teacher. She seems to be up for a fun year in Spain. I've explained the illegality of it all (not somewhere you want to call home long term as a result, but it can be a lot of fun) and she still seems game. Thanks for the input!

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Yeah, we sometimes try to make the point on the forum that an MA is best pursued after a few years of experience - a newly-qualified MA holder without experience isn't a hot commodity for more than entry-level stuff.

I'd remind your friend that her illegal year or two in Spain won't look entirely sterling on her resume later on, but so long as she's aware of the risks and isn't travelling to Spain on a financial shoestring or expecting to pay off student loans, well, at least she'll be a bit better qualified than many of the other illegal newbies around.

stoth1972 · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:54 am Post subject:

I can't say my illegality ever came up in jobs down the road, but good to keep in mind. Thanks again, spiral.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I think the issue of illegal status only comes up if the employer you are applying to has international connections/branches/etc. A university like the one I work for, with a significant international project base, would most definitely look down on an illegal stint on a CV.

stoth1972 · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:02 am Post subject:

I'm sure you're right about that...certain institutions w/in the EU would def. frown upon that. I was interviewed and accepted a job in Frankfurt, and when my status came up, it didn't hinder the process, but so much has changed, and illegality seems to be a hotter topic than ever.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Not just within the EU.

I'm based at a Canadian university (have been for three years) in their international projects dept. That's the uni that would frown seriously on illegal work in my past. We recently had normal Canadian inspection of our credentials in the department, to boot.... had to drag out all educational qualifications, plus CVs and letters of recc. They wanted to confirm all experience within the past ten years + all related educational qualifications. NOT because anyone had been caught doing anything nefarious, it was routine.

Before that, I was at a uni in the Netherlands, where, of course, any period of illegality would have been a total block to any employment.