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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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 Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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I hope this answers your questions.
I am in the program currently.
Non-licensure is quite simple. Even after taking your BA in Ed from any university, you are not qualified to teach in any state until you take that state's exam, and receive that state's Teaching Certificate. A few states recognize each other's certifications, but they are the exception, not the rule. So non-cert means that you still have to take the teaching cert exam for your particular state. However, most intl. schools don't care so much about the cert if you have a MA in Ed anyway.
The program is legit. Degree is fully accredited. You get an MA in Ed in 2 yrs. for a bit over 6 grand all told. To someone who has been paying off their BA for a decade, now, this is a gift from heaven.
Every 6 months or so, you go to class for 2 weeks at a time, 8 hrs a day, with pre-course assignments and lots of late hours studying. It's gruelling.
They (the guys in charge) arrange for you to have interviews with a variety of different schools, who are looking for teachers. You can accept or reject the offers, just as they can accept or reject you, so
1. come with an up-to-date resume and gameface on, and
2. Do your math when they make you an offer. The program deducts from your wages each month, so you need to account for that.
If you wish, it might be easier to be a commuter, pay for each session yourself, and then your only hassle is arranging time off from your job to come to Poland for your courses.
Hope that was helpful -- let me know if there is anything else I can help with.
Ernst |
Well Ernst reported how things are now. Maybe you should try to talk to some current participants before judging how the program is now. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, according to that logic I wouldn't need an MA at all to get the better EFL/ESL jobs out there but I don't think employers are buying that. |
Your logice does not hold. Just because employers require you to have a certain degree does not mean it is logical or necessary. Many things that are considered logical and necessary are later found to be dubious.
Furthermore, you can get a decent university job in Korea with a B.A. |
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jabberjaw
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: No again |
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JZer, go back and read through the tread carefully and pay specific attention to the dates. Lancer indicated that he finished the program in the summer of 2005. guangho didn't enter the program until the beginning of 2006. guangho did not indicate that the management has changed since then. Also, although Ernst's attitude was much more positive than guangho's about the program, Ernst did not state that there had been a management change since guangho started the program. The management change was way back in 2005. Lancer talked about it.
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| I don't think there is any indication whether the new administrators are Polish or Western. So why judge whether they are Polish or not! Clearly the past administration was but I don't think there is anything stating what the new administration is like. |
As mentioned before, no one has said anything about a management change since Lancer who finished the program in the summer of 2005. He said the result after the change in management was that two of his Polish students became managers. guangho then went on to sharply criticize those Polish managers. If guangho started the program just a little over a year ago and no one has said that the management has changed since then, then I have no reason to believe that it has.
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| Furthermore, you can get a decent university job in Korea with a B.A. |
If you read through the job ads for the better jobs in Korea you'll see that they require M.A. holders. Only some of the good ones say they prefer M.A. holders. If you don't have an M.A. or a friend who already works at the university who can help get you in, then you'll have a hard time getting those better jobs. Also, who in their right mind would really want to work in Korea?
If you don't think an M.A. is important, then why did you start a thread in which you stated that you were considering an M.A. program and why have you continued to follow it and post in it? By all means, give Mr Gates a call and convince him of your keen intelligence. Maybe you could even work for him in a Microsoft office in Korea if that's where your heart is set on.
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| Well Ernst reported how things are now. Maybe you should try to talk to some current participants before judging how the program is now. |
That's why I'm posting on this board but the current participants aren't participating in this thread. The only person participating at the moment besides myself is a sloppy reader who's quick to jump to conclusions that are unfounded and just plain wrong. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| If you read through the job ads for the better jobs in Korea you'll see that they require M.A. holders. Only some of the good ones say they prefer M.A. holders. If you don't have an M.A. or a friend who already works at the university who can help get you in, then you'll have a hard time getting those better jobs. Also, who in their right mind would really want to work in Korea? |
What do you consider better? I know some places where one can make 3.5 to 4 million Won with an M.A. They are out there but you have to be in country to find them.
As for wanting to be in Korea, that is a personal opinion. Besides Korea, Japan, and the Middle East, I am not sure where a Master's would help you anyways. I would add that who would want to work in the Middle East! |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Lancer wrote:
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| Two of these former students are the ones in charge of this program now from the Polish side. |
jabberjaw wrote:
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| He said the result after the change in management was that two of his Polish students became managers. |
Please read what Lancer wrote. He did not say where these former students are from. I don't have the slightest clue whether they are Polish or from an English speaking country. He said two former students are in charge from the Polish side (i.e in Poland, not from Poland). The nationality of these students was not stated. I think you are the one that needs to read more carefully. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| If you don't think an M.A. is important, then why did you start a thread in which you stated that you were considering an M.A. program and why have you continued to follow it and post in it? By all means, give Mr Gates a call and convince him of your keen intelligence. Maybe you could even work for him in a Microsoft office in Korea if that's where your heart is set on. |
I did not condradict myself. I never said further education is not important. I said it was not necessary and furthermore, studying at a university is not the only way to improve one's abilities.
I enjoy studying but I will reiterate that I do not think that an M.A. is necessary for someone to administer this program in Poland nor do I think it is necessary for many of the English instructors� jobs at Korean universities. I am studying for intrinsic value and not to get a better job. If you knew about different learning styles you might be able to understand that. Not everyone studies to get a better job or make more money.
Last edited by JZer on Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ernst
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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This program exists to fill a need - many people begin teaching ESL as a lark, and a few years later find that teaching is their calling. However, there are few ways to move from your ESL experience into a formally recognized degree that would allow you to teach in an international school or move into administration back state-side, without dropping your job and going back to college.
This program responds to that need. It gives ESL teachers the opportunity to gain formal qualifications through a respected University, which, when added to their years of experience running between language academies, makes them an attractive applicant for many jobs in education.
There seems a definite pattern in this thread of taking a poster's speculations, (some of which are baseless) and misconstruing or expanding them till they become mountains in the mind. Most of these questions have very simple answers. For instance, the comment made earlier about "why should the students pay to fly in the professors? Why doesn't Framingham do this?" Well, to answer, Framingham does. Students pay tuition, and Framingham sends out professors. But do students end up paying for the flights? You bet. Just like in a regular Uni, the student pays their tuition, and part of it goes to the landscaping department. So in essence, the student pays (albeit indirectly) for someone to mow the grass. Same applies here: of course the students pay for it, but via their tuition.
Another example would be the question about "Why would Framingham allow students to run the program?" Which morphs into the later comment "run by people who didn't even finish the program."
I doubt this will help, but the facts are:
Previous managment went under a couple of years ago. At that time, 3 people (students in the program) who were close to finishing their degrees decided to get in touch with Framingham, and attempt to conduct one final round of classes, so as to complete their own degrees.
At this point they have graduated, and successfully conducted multiple sessions, brought in new students, grown the program from where it was, and in general, provided a service to the ESL community.
Regarding all the strange questions about why Framingham wouldn't fly in their own people, it is because they have programs in many countries. Check out their website. To post people in all these countries would be horrendously expensive, and counterproductive.
People in-country take care of logistics (reserving rooms with universities, booking hotel rooms for visiting profs, etc.) much better than any yank flown in could do, and Framingham in turn takes care of the academic side of things. Someone asked the question why Framingham would allow that. My question is why wouldn't they? Does the dean of admissions insist on personally paying the electric bill for his university? There has always been a separation in academic institutions between the physical infrastructure side and the academic side.
This discussion could really benefit from people doing a bit of research on their own before speaking. Good places to start would be:
http://www.mastersinpoland.com/
http://www.framingham.edu/dgce/iep/faq.htm
May wisdom and peace prevail.
Ernst |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| So Ernst, to put this all into perspective, what is your role in all of this? What is your job title? |
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Ernst
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm currently a student in the program, but recently was asked to work as the on-site coordinator, which means I take care of the logistical concerns mentioned in my previous post (reserving rooms with universities, booking hotel rooms for visiting profs, etc.) |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| I'm currently a student in the program, but recently was asked to work as the on-site coordinator, which means I take care of the logistical concerns mentioned in my previous post (reserving rooms with universities, booking hotel rooms for visiting profs, etc.) |
Ernst, where are you from? |
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jabberjaw
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:35 am Post subject: . |
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JZer said:
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| I am studying for intrinsic value and not to get a better job. |
Yeah, right. I still agree with Gordon that you wouldn't have been interested in the program if it hadn't said free and you know just as well as any of us that having a Masters Degree in Education would help your career.
Ernst wrote:
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| However, there are few ways to move from your ESL experience into a formally recognized degree that would allow you to teach in an international school or move into administration back state-side, without dropping your job and going back to college. |
What about moving into an ESL teaching position at a community college stateside? Would this degree be recognized enough for that, especially if one went the commuter program route? I have to wonder because the commuter program route would require 8 weeks of class over two years as compared with stateside M.A. programs which require 2 years of class over two years.
Ernst wrote:
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| "why should the students pay to fly in the professors? Why doesn't Framingham do this?" Well, to answer, Framingham does. Students pay tuition, and Framingham sends out professors. But do students end up paying for the flights? You bet. Just like in a regular Uni, the student pays their tuition, and part of it goes to the landscaping department. So in essence, the student pays (albeit indirectly) for someone to mow the grass. Same applies here: of course the students pay for it, but via their tuition. |
Hmm. The reason I asked is because guangho made it sound like it was something paid in addition to the tuition he had already paid.
Ernst wrote:
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Previous managment went under a couple of years ago. At that time, 3 people (students in the program) who were close to finishing their degrees decided to get in touch with Framingham, and attempt to conduct one final round of classes, so as to complete their own degrees.
At this point they have graduated, and successfully conducted multiple sessions, brought in new students, grown the program from where it was, and in general, provided a service to the ESL community. |
That's also not how it was put before. Thanks for the info. I just hope there's not a conflict of interest in your posts seeing that you represent the program. Perhaps guangho or Lancer would care to comment on your remarks? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, right. I still agree with Gordon that you wouldn't have been interested in the program if it hadn't said free and you know just as well as any of us that having a Masters Degree in Education would help your career. |
Considering that I might not even continue teaching, I do not know about that. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Be honest, you were interested because it said FREE. |
Yes, I am interested in it because it is free. I am trying to invest my money now, so I would not be willing to spend $20,000-$40,000 out of my pocket for an MA. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I have to wonder because the commuter program route would require 8 weeks of class over two years as compared with stateside M.A. programs which require 2 years of class over two years. |
That is easy to explain. If you took a M.A. back home you would put in 6-9 hours a week. One semester would be approximantly 14 weeks X 6 hours. That would be 84 hours in a semester. This MA program is two weeks a semester, eight hours a day. Two weeks at that pace equals 80 hours or so. I imagine that people in the commuter program spend as much time in class as someone who did a M.A. over two years.
Ernst could give us more feedback on this.
You can also find intensive M.A. programs in the U.S. Some schools have summer intensive M.A.'s for current teachers. I think that it has been mentioned on this site that SIT has a summer intensive program as well. I am not sure how many years it would take to complete that program. |
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jabberjaw
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: Hmm |
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jabberjaw wrote:
I have to wonder because the commuter program route would require 8 weeks of class over two years as compared with stateside M.A. programs which require 2 years of class over two years.
JZer wrote:
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That is easy to explain. If you took a M.A. back home you would put in 6-9 hours a week. One semester would be approximantly 14 weeks X 6 hours. That would be 84 hours in a semester. This MA program is two weeks a semester, eight hours a day. Two weeks at that pace equals 80 hours or so. I imagine that people in the commuter program spend as much time in class as someone who did a M.A. over two years.
Ernst could give us more feedback on this.
You can also find intensive M.A. programs in the U.S. Some schools have summer intensive M.A.'s for current teachers. I think that it has been mentioned on this site that SIT has a summer intensive program as well. I am not sure how many years it would take to complete that program. |
Hmm. Well, that does explain it. I have to say I'm skeptical about the idea of an intensive M.A. program though. I took a graduate level class in the TESOL field in the US and it required a lot of reading, a lot of writing, and a lot of research for writing projects and presentations. I don't think that small town in Poland where the program takes place would have access to all the books and magazine articles that you would need access to in order to do your research. Also, all that work I did was just for one class that met once a week for a semester. The idea of putting that class and another one on top of that into a two week period is overzealous. It would require superhuman skill to complete all that work and process all that information.
Further, I get a month vacation from my job every year. I can't see spending my month - when I need to be relaxing in order to come back to work fresh - overextending myself like that. I'd come back to work, my bosses would expect me to be fresh, and I'd feel like I needed another vacation.
Of course, there is the option of not going the commuter route and working for a language school in Poland instead and studying on top of that. However, I would lose a lot of money if I were to give up my current job to go to Poland to work at a language school for slave wages, and guangho already mentioned how grueling it is working at one of the language schools the program places you in and studying too. As mentioned before, I'm not looking to overextend myself. I think I'm going to have to pass on this particular program. |
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