Job Discussion Forums

[Cleopatra]

Hard to know what the antecedent of your first sentence is, but, seeing as - according to you - Dubai is a 'country', I'm wondering where I could find its embassy?

[The_Prodiigy]

Teacher Cleopatra opens her lesson with the following :
Alrighty, students. Today we are going to study common stereotypes.
Does anyone know what a stereotype is ? Anyone ... ?

Please, Miss. Is it when you write two emails at the same time, Miss ?

No, no. It's like this ...

I agree - for footballers' wives or others whose idea of a good holiday is spending a few days in a vulgar, overpriced hotel complete with a choice of nail 'salons', 'Natashas' and brown waiters who know their place and call you 'madam', then you can't do better than Doo-buy.

Student falls off chair.

[The_Prodiigy]

[Stephen Jones]

[The_Prodiigy]

No. You're hallucinating. Which is even more disturbing.

[veiledsentiments]

[Queen of Sheba]

Yes Saudi is all that different. Just because the people are tribal, Gulf Arabs doesn�t make their countries identical. Are Alabama and New York identical? Istanbul and Antalya? This is more of the same old colonial mindset assuming all the natives are alike.

For expatriate women in particular it really is that different. Saudi Arabia is more segregated, and restrictive. Women cannot drive, and have the usual lack of outside entertainment that men have. In addition, they have to wear an abaya, which is something of a uniform, and they usually get less pay for the same work, plus they have to deal with the normal men are smarter and more competent than women drivel.

[Cleopatra]

[Stephen Jones]

Women only get less pay for the same work in teaching if they are on their husbands' sponsorship, and work for dodgy outfits. If they are hired direct the pay scales are the same.

Bear in mind that there are considerable cultural differences between the different regions of Saudi, and they have still not been ironed out.

A woman will definitely notice the difference, between Saudi and other Gulf countries; as dmb suggests for a bloke they are not so apparent, excluding public sex separation and consumption of alchol.

[Queen of Sheba]

That makes sense Jones. As for the abaya factor, Cleo, I dont think its not the style that makes it seem like a uniform so much as being forced to wear it. That plus its all black, unlike some other Muslim countries, albeit outside the Gulf. Even though other Gulf countries do not require by law that women wear abayas, thus there is less of the feeling of uniformity. Since thats what all women wear in KSA outside make it something of a "uniform." I agree with you that there are lovlier and uglier "uniforms." However, the fact that women must wear them, makes it unnattractive to most, and thus I beleive many expats dont want to spent their riyals on anything more expensive than the bin-liner models. Most of those cant afford nicer models, or they are the expats who hate it here and dont feel they want to assimilate in any way shape or form because they are too focused on leaving, and indeed they should leave.

Having lived in other Gulf countries as well as other Middle Eastern countries, as well having traveled for holidays to Qatar, Oman, Bahrain and the UAE, I still find Saudi Arabia unique and more "culturally shocking" for expats and Arab expats alike, than the rest. I know Bahrainis with family ties to Saudi, who decided they couldnt live here because it was too different than their homeland of Bahrain. Now this is Bahrain, which is geographically, culturally, religiously and governmentally related to KSA. To assume all the A-rabs are alike is like assuming all Europeans are alike. The reasons for these differences in KSA lifestyle, law and so forth might be interesting to explore, yet it must be related to the fact that KSA is the keeper of the holy shrines of Islam. In addition to that fact that there are only about 30% non-Saudis who live here, as you pointed out in another post. Even that may be related to their holy obligations as a nation.

[Cleopatra]

[Queen of Sheba]

Cleo, I know what you mean about the laws being de facto in KSA, but even a de facto law still means that a woman can and will be arrested for not wearing an abaya in public. I even know of women being arrested for not wearing head scarves, even though we see it all the time, doesnt mean they can always get away with it.

I never meant to imply that you would have the "A-rab" mentality, its just that many do when coming to KSA, by assuming its just like any other Middle Eastern country. Sure there are similarities, nobody is denying that, its just that we are talking about "if" Saudi is on this thread, and to me and based on my observations, its a lot different. Those similarities are superfifical when it comes to an expats life here in KSA in particular. Those similarities only go so far as the differences and restrictions are plenty. Why else would so many people come here thinking they could manage it because they lived in Iraq or Kuwait or Egypt, only to find its not like those places?

I mentioned Bahrain because it is linked to Saudi with a bridge, and relies on Saudis for a great deal of their income, and the recent Al Khalifa government is linked to Saudi and has ties to the kingdom. Of course historically there has been a lot of invasion and influence in Bahrain, from the Portugese to the Persians, which incidentally may account for their "differences" to Saudis, and life in Saudi, in the Riyadh and Najd province in particular.

[Cleopatra]

[Van Norden]

[Cleopatra]