Job Discussion Forums

[Pieface]

Yes I second that - Dave_1 has given some sound advice here

[Xanthos]

Thanks very much for your generous replies. It is interesting to see the variety of opinions.

So the major issue really is getting through check-in in the UK with a one-way ticket to Hong Kong. Does anyone have any ideas on how this can be successfully acheived? Or do I just say "I'm a teacher"?

[Dave_1]

[Xanthos]

Thanks very much for these pearls of wisdom.

How much am I looking at for an onward ticket? Under �50? Under �30?

[Dave_1]

[Xanthos]

Wow, that seems like a lot. I would probably only buy a one-way ticket to the follow-on destination, this is how I got to my previous China mainland teaching placement before. There must be something under �50...? I have little time to check the net at the moment...

[Hod]

Just another perspective on this now I'm in HK for a few days.

Compared to the UK or say Japan, it's quite cheap here. Then again, compared to Thailand or even Malaysia, it's wallet busting. I just paid 75 dollars for seafood rice. Cheaper food here (10 dollar noodles) is awful and I'd hate to be stuck here on a budget.

In somewhere like Thailand, you'd get away with arriving with very little money. But HK is no place to be skint. I can't think of a worse place to be so in fact. And oh yes, someone on here will counter with tales of great food for $5 and a hotel that's even cheaper. But someone just off the boat will take a few weeks to find all that. Anyone scrimping and saving on flights before they've even left for HK would be well advised to save up first.

[Dave_1]

[11:59]

'Even' $15,000 HK per month? Even? The NET housng allowance is $13,000 HK a month and most people I know in Shenzhen now earn between 10,000 and 12,000 RMB a month. What do you mean by even $15,000? I have to pay $16,000 HK a month for tuition fees alone for my two daughters at ESF. $15,000 HK is chicken feed.

[Pieface]

You can take a ferry to Macau for under 50 quid, or a train to Shenzhen, but it sounds like you're on an incredibly tight budget.

[Dave_1]

[briandwest]

[hkteach]

Brian,
There have been many university teaching job ads posted in SCMP and when the salaries are published, they are very low - lower than a NET salary.
I can't remember the particular job titles but usually a higher degree (they specify Masters) yet the salary package is very poor (housing not included on the ones I've seen either). Unless you're gong for a professor's job (haha) I think you're better off as a NET.

[11:59]

I think the posts you are referring to � those advertised on SCMP � are for language and assistant language instructors hired to teach non-credit-bearing language-support classes. And you are right, the pay is shockingly low. Also, one thing you don�t mention is that the contracts are often extremely short. This was the first thing that struck me when I returned to HK. Back in the 90s such posts would pay at least $40,000 HK a month, but now it is between $20,000 and $25,000, and whereas the minimum contract length used to be two years, now the maximum is but a year, and, quite often, just 10 months! Quite a few of the local universities only give out 10-month contracts now (they won't pay for the long summer break), and I have even seen one university offer 4-month contracts! Where I work the bog-standard language teachers earn around $28,000 HK and have two-year contracts, so it is certainly less than the NET scheme, especially if you have built up some post-qualification experience recognised by the EMB. Many SNETs of advanced years I meet are on between $50,000 and $55,000 a month.

However, working in a university setting is obviously vastly different to a school environment. Most language instructors at my institution will have around 20 hours of teaching and/or tutorials a week, most of which is far from demanding in the way school teaching can be, and they will often have a whole day free of any classes and so they don't have to come in so it's a four-day week. Remember also that half-term breaks, study weeks, and exam periods and the like are abound so there is a lot of time off actual teaching throughout the year. And if their first class, tutorial or whatever is not until 1pm then they don't have to come in till that time, and if their last class finishes at 12pm then they can go home. It is not like school where you have to be there at a certain time whether you have an early class or not and have to remain there till a set time even if you don't have any other classes or tasks to carry out. They are treated as adults and as long as they discharge their responsibilities to the appropriate standard then they can come and go as they please. Also, there are no form times, assemblies, ECAs, power-mad principals, or cranky local teachers, and they can pretty much wear what they like, so it can be a vastly easier job in those regards. Also, many do private lessons of an evening and weekend and can easily charge $500 an hour. Some do around 10 hours a week and so supplement their income by around another $20,000 a month.

However, as HKteach says, such posts do normally require at least an advanced degree and there is no housing or housing allowance so in that regard it can appear less attractive than the NET scheme. Most of the language instructors I have spoken with either do it for their CV and/or because they are still studying (a second Masters or a PhD) and working in a university setting is simply more conducive to this, and of course there is access to vast libraries, professors, etc.

Returning to how much things have changed at universities in HK, it is not just as regards basic, entry-level language instructors who have seen their salaries and benefit packages be reduced. Most lecturers now will only be on between $40,000 and $60,000 HK a month and it will often be contracted work (3 or 4 years). This is very different from a few decades ago. I know of people who signed up with universities here in HK back in the early 1980s and who are, by the terms of their agreement, limited to 9 hours of lectures a week. They don�t have a contract as such, but have a job, in the western sense of a job. So unless the institution goes bankrupt (unlikely as they are largely funded by the government) or they are subject to disciplinary action (verbal and written warnings) or they choose to leave (highly unlikely for reasons to be explained below), they have a post until they retire at 55 or 60. Many of them are on nothing short of mythical salaries, sometimes in excess of $100,000 HK a month. In addition to this they are provided with superb western-sized housing on campus (often homes of 4,000 square feet), an aircon allowance during summer, a heating allowance during winter, an educational allowance for up to four children at $15,000 HK per child, a debenture paid for them if they need it for their kids (at the German Swiss School or a similar institution), 3 or 4 return flights to their home state every year (business class of course), a travel allowance for attending conferences, and a furniture allowance every other year. No wonder many of the universities are now finding themselves in financial dire straits. I have asked people about these sort of contracts and apparently that is simply what they had to offer back then in order to attract people from the UK, the US, Australia, as well as to entice others away from Japan, Korea, and the Middle East. Things were obviously very good during the boom years in HK!

[daily chai]

I would just go and, if asked, say yuo are buying a train ticket in-country. I went to Taiwan with a printout of the website for the ferry to Okinawa, when I checked in I was asked for a ticket out of there (because the airlines take a hit for importing people with no exit route) and I showed my the printout. It clearly states you can only buy tickets in Taiwan, there was no online purchase (this was in 2003--things could have changed). As you said that you have to be in-country to buy a ticket to China, that is what you say. Bring a printout in hand. Be brave. Look presentable. You made the decision to go, so you're going to make it work.
BTW when I got to Taipei immigration just stamped me, no problem. I've never gone to a Asia with a job beforehand, and I've moved there 4 times now. I always search on a tourist visa. The immigration authorities know about this, that is why it's so easy to turn around your paperwork in macau if that is an official route. In Taiwan if you have enough time lefton your visa you can just get it 'turned into' a work permit, without leaving the island. It's because tourists come to look for work. No one blames them. The employers like interviewing people in person, so there you go.

Whatever you do--do *not* say you are a teacher. No. You are a tourist. If you are on a tourist visa but claim to be a teacher, immigration will immediately suspect you are teaching under the table and that is a can of worms. You are a tourist, nothing else, on a pleasant trip to Hong Kong en route to China.