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proper attire for western women
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Queen of Sheba



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amity wrote:
I am surprised to hear there are Saudi women in the workplace, actually.


There are many things that cannot be understood about Saudi Arabia and its people because our "Western" preconcieved notions run so deep about them. In addition, things are changing rapidly around here. What held true 10 years ago is far from reality today. I see a difference in the last year alone accross Riyadh, for example. Many things you simply need to be here to understand and see for yourself, this takes time, and I suggest to everyone that they don't jump the gun and make assumptions, for you will better equiped to take it all in with an open mind when you arrive.


Last edited by Queen of Sheba on Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Queen of Sheba wrote:
I admit is interesting to see men squirming to impress me, making it all the more clear you would miss me if I was gone.

Mary Shelley wriote about about this predicament in Frankenstein;
"Life and death appeared to me ideal bounds, which I should first break through, and pour a torrent of light into our dark world."


Mary Shelley More Quotes from Frankenstein:
"I am alone and miserable; man will not associate with me; but one as deformed and horrible as myself would not deny herself to me. My companion must be of the same species and have the same defects. This being you must create."
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baby, it's all good! - A modern hijab poem

What do you see when you look at me
Do you see someone limited, or someone free
All some people can do is just look and stare
Simply because they can't see my hair
Others think I am controlled and uneducated
They think that I am limited and un-liberated
They are so thankful that they are not me
Because they would like to remain 'free'

Well free isn't exactly the word I would've used
Describing women who are cheated on and abused
They think that I do not have opinions or voice
They think that being hooded isn't my choice
They think that the hood makes me look caged
That my husband or dad are totally outraged
All they can do is look at me in fear
And in my eye there is a tear

Not because I have been stared at or made fun of
But because people are ignoring the One up above
On the day of judgment they will be the fools
Because they were too ashamed to play by their own rules
Maybe the guys won't think I am a cutie
But at least I am filled with more inner beauty
See I have declined from being a guy's toy
Because I won't let myself be controlled by a boy

Real men are able to appreciate my mind
And aren't busy looking at my behind
Hooded girls are the ones really helping the Muslim cause
The role that we play definitely deserves applause
I will be recognized because I am smart and bright
And because some people are inspired by my sight
The smart ones are attracted by my tranquility
In the back of their mind they wish they were me

We have the strength to do what we think is right
Even if it means putting up a life long fight
You see we are not controlled by a mini skirt and tight shirt
We are given only respect, and never treated like dirt
So you see, we are the ones that are free and liberated
We are not the ones that are sexually terrorized and violated
We are the ones that are free and pure
We're free of STD's that have no cure

So when people ask you how you feel about the hood
Just sum it up by saying, 'Baby its all good'

Source: The Veil (From the Sound Vision documentary Hijab: An Act of Faith)
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Van Norden



Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 409

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of the song sung by the revolutionaries in Woody Allen's classic movie Bananas:
Rebels are we
Born to be free
Just like the fish in the sea!
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So when people ask you how you feel about the hood
Reminds me of the time I told my students my favourite film was boyz in the hood They asked what it was about so I told them it was about a cross dressing gang in south central LA who had become disillisioned with life so decided to convert to Islam...... they believed me.
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t_murakami



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Back to clothes: bring your trainers Reply with quote

I am not sure about women's shopping, but I found looking for sports togs NOT rewarding here. A male friend wanted some running shoes to run a 10 Km at a compound in Riyadh. Both clerks (shop assistants) we came upon could give us no advice...but we did get shoes anyway. still, less choice than in the West. Stores are "boutiquey" there with less selection than , say, the US : more fashion than function.
As far as swimming or jogging (even triathlons and hashing in shorts exist ! Don't tell the mutawah's Shocked ) you can do these in/near Riyadh and other big cities.

Like most ex-pat's, had few social functions with Saudi's but I agree with the others here, that casual can work at WE's, but you get paid too much to go about with holes in your odd socks Very Happy . Why look like a cheap skate, when you are making good coin?

cheers, T
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amity



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Location: central Texas

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Back to clothes: bring your trainers Reply with quote

t_murakami wrote:
Stores are "boutiquey" there with less selection than , say, the US : more fashion than function.
aHA! Now I understand much, and can plan. That is valuable info, and I thank you.

And I love the poem, but I doubt somehow it was written by a Saudi woman. Am I wrong?

How are my questions betraying stereotypical thinking, I wonder? I am mainly responding to complaints that "there is nothing to do in Saudi Arabia" I guess. In fact most everything I would want to do seems to be available.

I am not going to wear closed shoes in that heat if I can avoid it. That was one thing I hated about Kuwait Airways. If it was 120 F or higher we still had to wear pumps AND hose on the job. Assuming ESL jobs would generally be "business casual" (is that true?), in the U.S. "business casual" still generally means closed shoes, and I was hoping that is not true of Saudi Arabia, too. Truly, I saw few women in closed shoes in M.E. 20+ years ago, but maybe that was just the mode du jour.
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goingbald



Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:55 am    Post subject: proper attire for western women Reply with quote

Tips:

1. Don't wear clicky, heeled shoes. You will draw unwanted and unnecessary attention to yourself.

2. Whether you're a Muslim or not, you must cover your hair in public at all times. Many women, and men, display simple ignorance of this obligation, or deliberate arrogance. One related benefit is that you are less likely to draw attention from the youth in the malls.

3. Something that would apply equally to men as well as women: when in public, don't be flashy.

gb
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laila



Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amity,

To answer your question about shoes and hose..... I don't think I have ever seen a Saudi woman wear hose. Sometimes I wear them in the winter because it is cold. Also you'll have no problem wearing open toed shoes. Most women wear open toed shoes, but the more conservative women don't.
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Back to clothes: bring your trainers Reply with quote

amity wrote:
..And I love the poem, but I doubt somehow it was written by a Saudi woman. Am I wrong?

The poem was not written by a Saudi woman. It was written by a British Muslim woman living in UK.

Quote:
I am not going to wear closed shoes in that heat if I can avoid it. That was one thing I hated about Kuwait Airways. If it was 120 F or higher we still had to wear pumps AND hose on the job. Assuming ESL jobs would generally be "business casual" (is that true?), in the U.S. "business casual" still generally means closed shoes, and I was hoping that is not true of Saudi Arabia, too. Truly, I saw few women in closed shoes in M.E. 20+ years ago, but maybe that was just the mode du jour.

You can wear sandals with socks in hot weather, or if you want I have heard that there is new model of 'air-conditioned' shoes in US/UK! Why not bring them with you especially to be used in hot weather.
With this shoes the foot remains well ventilated and fresh even in the hottest summer days. The secret lies in the sole of the shoes which are made with many rubber microvalves, which, with the pressure of the foot manage to expel the air in the shoe. The fresh air is then pushed in from below thanks to atmospheric pressure. With every step therefore there is a change of air. What a new technology! This is what I call 'smart shoes'! Laughing
You have to check with our respected ladies in this forum who work in SA if this 'air-conditionedd shoes' exist in SA?
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amity



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Location: central Texas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

007 wrote:
You can wear sandals with socks in hot weather, or if you want I have heard that there is new model of 'air-conditioned' shoes in US/UK!
Hysterical! But I don't think that is what I want to do with my hard-earned rials, thank ye.

Okay, suitcases are as good as packed. I am taking the hair-covering and conservatism issues to heart, BTW. I am going there to work, after all.

A recruiter suggested a job strategy wherein I try to swoop down on last-minute emergency vacancies by putting myself in a position to say

"I can be there in three days!"

We'll see if this works. Shocked

I am giving this until end of September.
If it does work, I have many of you to thank for sound advice.
If not, there is always Korea.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep looking Amity. your strategy might work

I lived in sandals in the Gulf... not tacky birkenstocks which are not appropriate for work in any educational or professional position IMHO. I certainly never wore socks with sandals. I didn't even own a pair of pantyhose (and still don't actually), but had some knee highs that I could wear with my long skirts if needed for those rare occasions when I wore shoes.

BTW... you might want to look around for what they used to call 'broomstick' skirts. They are getting hard to find, but if you google, they can be found from various online sources.

If you do get a position in KSA, you will need to pick up an abaya before you go.

VS
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amity



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Location: central Texas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I "assumed" my employer would have one over their arm when they met me at the airport. All I have is a big black scarf.

Edit: I did a search on "abaya" and found all sorts of things being identified as "abaya" but none of them were what I expected. I suppose I can get what I need mail order, but what do I need? What I had in mind was a sort of black semi-circular overgarment with just a little shaping around the shoulders provided by seaming, extends to the ankles, held closed in front with the hand or a pin, slits for hands. Not much different from a chador. What I find listed as "abaya" online is a dress. Can someone point me in the right direction? Is what I need a niquab or hijab?
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goingbald



Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear amity,

As a foreigner in the gulf, you'd probably not be expected to cover your face. You should buy a hijab, or several, really. It is just a scarf that should cover ALL of your hair and neck, not just part of it.

My mother (who is not a Muslim) came here and wore the hijab for the entire time she visited. She said she loved Saudi Arabia, and loved the visit.

Depending on the country where you love, you should be easily able to pick up a hijab. They're often on sale in shops which are also Islamic bookshops (but don't just pick up any old book on Islam if you're there).

Hope that helps

gb
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goingbald



Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, yes yes, I saw my typo. Humble apologies.

Amity, here are several places in texas which may help you:

At-Tawheed Da'wah center
500 Pampa dr #207
Tel 512 371 9907

Ibnul Qayyim Publications
Po box 50762
Fort Worth, TX 76105
214 329 1238

Also, www.tarbiyyahbookstore.com

They should be able to help you out with "attire".

Enjoy.

gb
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