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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| If they get paid and the contract is otherwise adhered to, that's all that concerns me. Why would any of you care about things that do not effect you in the least? |
being smart about the doings and the practices of your employer is being smart about the situation regarding your workplace and professional future - after all the two could bump into each other - a situation that any smart worker should care about  |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: |
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working for a large international company (even if it is in china) should provide us with a sense of responsibility, and that especially if we are in a management position, Gregor 
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| "Oh, I won't work for that school because they have been accused by some guy on Dave's of embezzlement. This other one didn't give a teacher the tea towel she was promised, so that one's out..." What are you talking about? Concentration camp guards?? Are you out of your mind? You can't possibly believe the two (I and they) are even remotely saying the same things. These things are either unimportant (the tea towel) or, seriously, none of your business (the business practices between head office and the school). Protect the teachers? From WHAT? If they get paid and the contract is otherwise adhered to, that's all that concerns me. Why would any of you care about things that do not effect you in the least? |
embezzlement in EF 
oh dear....EF teachers have to teach far off their centers' premises and at some sh*tty places too...EF teachers have their teachers assistants or course consultants interfere in their work...EF teachers get fired for little or no reasons but head office cannot step in......EF teachers are often observed by their chinese coworkers who then provide feedback to the employers/chmanagement...EF teachers have to do the monkey shows regularly or face consequencies....EF teachers DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THEY REALLY ARE EF TEACHERS.....EF teachers are forced to work for clones of their employers.....and so on and on
Gregor questions what to protect the teachers from  ...sounds like you are a fine violin player 
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| If you refused to work for anyone or any company that ever did anything that you didn't approve of, you'd never work anywhere at all. |
anything, everything, many things
well, at least that you have a job Gregor ...and i am sure that the EF head office is proud you are on daves 
peace to our points of views on how we should do our jobs in china
and
cheers and beers to all responsible FTs as well as academic directors in china  |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
| oh dear....EF teachers have to teach far off their centers' premises and at some sh*tty places too...EF teachers have their teachers assistants or course consultants interfere in their work...EF teachers get fired for little or no reasons but head office cannot step in......EF teachers are often observed by their chinese coworkers who then provide feedback to the employers/chmanagement...EF teachers have to do the monkey shows regularly or face consequencies....EF teachers DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THEY REALLY ARE EF TEACHERS.....EF teachers are forced to work for clones of their employers.....and so on and on |
Don't overgeneralise. Some teachers at some centres might be put through some of these situations; but none of them have occurred at any of the centres I've worked in, and sure as heck wouldn't be allowed to happen to any of my teachers here. |
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no_exit
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Kunming
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: |
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What makes embezzlement at EF any different from embezzlement at local universities? Or middle schools, primaries, and even kindergartens? I mean, are teachers supposed to be whistle blowers for all that is corrupt in China, or does this argument only apply to EF because they're an "international company?"
It just seems like a bit of a double standard. Universities here are corrupt as hell. Deans take bribes to admit less than stellar students. Administrators pass kids who fail there exams in order to make the school look better. False "partnerships" are forged with universities abroad that basically cater to rich dropouts. Embezzlement happens at every turn (I used to have a FAO at a university who would randomly come around the apartment and switch out the TVs, having claimed that the old one was broken, when in fact it was fine. He'd then take the TVs and sell them off, having replaced the "broken" ones with school money), and seeing as how the corruption involves institutes of higher learning, I'd sort of expect that the level of outrage would at least equal that which *some* EF centers seem to evoke by cutting corners on their DOS reports.
I'm not justifying the corruption on either side, but coming down on EF for being less than honest with their record books, when we live in a country where no one at all is honest with their record books, and then claiming that FTs need to fight this sort of thing (seriously, how?) -- I think some people are just looking for an argument and not stopping to think about how ridiculous the argument becomes when carried out to it's logical conclusion. I seriously doubt any of us have ever work at a school where everything was done 100% on the up and up, so who's leading the charge? But wait, our schools don't break our contracts, we're paid on time and given what we're promised, so we don't go poking around in stuff that's essentially none of our business, right? I mean, if EF teachers are expected to care what their bosses are doing behind their backs, why should this attitude start and end with EF? Why don't we all start caring? |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: |
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certain posters have been recomending EF as a good starting point for those wanting to teach in China (nobody ventures to suggest that working for them is anything more than this) -
We then read from one posters experience at an EF center -
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| Late 2004 to early 2005 EF Chongqing....Academic Director....six months, despite working with some good teachers a bit of a crap experience. Dodgy owner (who I actually never met), a Centre Manager who in Feb 2005 're-imbursed' himself by taking all the staff wages. |
He latter goes on to tell us that although EF head office paid some compensation - airfares and other bonuses were withheld - and indeed EF HQ had no legal obligation to pay anything!!!!
When EF make such a big number about it being a large organisation - giving the newbie a sense of security - and then we see that HQ won't fully secure the financial possition of EF employees in circumstances of center misconduct - then I think anyone wanting to work in this company should take great notice of the warnings no-exit, sonnet and gregor give us that "funny stuff" does happen at EF - and indeed working for this company is no safer a bet for the newbie than working at many other places. and when you put that together with poor pay levels for high work load, shared accom, and short holidays - well EF look very unattractive - no wonder the vets here wouldn't want to work at one of these centers!!! |
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junan
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Location: Filbert Street
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: |
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you know what?
I could post a message about flower arranging on these forums and STILL within 4 posts, you guys would be threatening to kick 2 shades of shite out of eachother. Will you all just calm down?????
These forums are fascinating, instructive and informative....for crying out loud, they read like West Side Story half the bloody time!
Relax...PLEASE!!! |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| What do you do on your days off? Go out and knock old grannies over the head and rob their purses? |
no Asian Bill..... I bait punks like you...
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If the center manager and DOS say to go out and pick pockets or slit the throats of kids are you obligated to do that as well?
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what did the center manager and the DOS say? |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| I could post a message about flower arranging on these forums and STILL within 4 posts, you guys would be threatening to kick 2 shades of *beep* out of eachother. Will you all just calm down????? |
good post for a newcomer to forums....or have you been on before
internet is to be blamed for "these forums"
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oh dear....EF teachers have to teach far off their centers' premises and at some sh*tty places too...EF teachers have their teachers assistants or course consultants interfere in their work...EF teachers get fired for little or no reasons but head office cannot step in......EF teachers are often observed by their chinese coworkers who then provide feedback to the employers/chmanagement...EF teachers have to do the monkey shows regularly or face consequencies....EF teachers DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THEY REALLY ARE EF TEACHERS.....EF teachers are forced to work for clones of their employers.....and so on and on
Sonnet's reply:
Don't overgeneralise. Some teachers at some centres might be put through some of these situations; but none of them have occurred at any of the centres I've worked in, and sure as heck wouldn't be allowed to happen to any of my teachers here. |
Don't lie. Your teachers are your employer's teachers in EF. Respectfully, you are so full of it. And, until this point we still have no idea what EF center you are at...but hell it's none of our business, is it? You keep on filling the EF related forums with your cr*ppy incomplete info and you do not feel a wee bit of guilt here. You should be ashamed with all due respect to whoever you are or claim to be.
There are many EF centers with teachers travelling around and spending their time on buses or in taxis to get to and from their classrooms where they are sent to teach. There are many EF centers where EF course consultants are allowed to provide their feedback on FTs or observe them in many ways, which I do consider for a gross interferance. There are many EF Directors of Studies that suffer or shall I say their "toes" suffer from being stepped on. ... and then on and on...
Now,
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What makes embezzlement at EF any different from embezzlement at local universities? Or middle schools, primaries, and even kindergartens? I mean, are teachers supposed to be whistle blowers for all that is corrupt in China, or does this argument only apply to EF because they're an "international company?"
It just seems like a bit of a double standard. Universities here are corrupt as hell. Deans take bribes to admit less than stellar students. Administrators pass kids who fail there exams in order to make the school look better. False "partnerships" are forged with universities abroad that basically cater to rich dropouts...................................... |
I hear ya. It seems unfair to come out here and single out one company, the EF. I think that you've got it right there, when you said above that EF is an "international company". We join this company in a kind of a hope and with certain promises from the (western) franchise. We all know that bribes, corruption, embezzlement as mentioned above, goes on in western countries too. However, here in China, it's taken some new levels, hasn't it? In west, we often criticise China for exactly what we are talking about here, but when our business people, just like the EF ones come to China, they quickly join the party, if you know what I mean. Too bad that only the ones with money and a few given their authorities can join this party, and then too bad that many of us are used to keep this system going. 
Peace to all
and
cheers and beers to FTs that stand up for themselves |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: |
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When you read this -
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| I could post a message about flower arranging on these forums and STILL within 4 posts, you guys would be threatening to kick 2 shades of *beep* out of eachother. Will you all just calm down????? |
and afterwards think about stuff like this -
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| Late 2004 to early 2005 EF Chongqing....Academic Director....six months, despite working with some good teachers a bit of a crap experience. Dodgy owner (who I actually never met), a Centre Manager who in Feb 2005 're-imbursed' himself by taking all the staff wages. |
And you still want to liken the kind of experience described in the second quote to that of doing a bit of flower arranging - then I do suppose you have a valid point!!!
Ohhhhh what comedy |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: |
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lovely
cheers and calms |
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in_asia_bill
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
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| What do you do on your days off? Go out and knock old grannies over the head and rob their purses? |
no Asian Bill..... I bait punks like you... |
Touchy, touchy! I guess I struck a raw nerve. So guess who works for EF!
Cj, Gregor, and no exit, since you all openly advocate becoming party to fraud and deception on a public forum, you obviously dont have any qualms about becoming involved in criminal activities. So my question is why stop at TEFL? If you are going to go criminal why not go in for a bit of extortion or bank robbery and at least make it worthwhile? I reckon the pay would be much more rewarding. And you probably dont need a visa either.
You say that everyone else is doing it. Well we dont care. To us that is not relevant. To repeat, thats what the guards at the concentration camps said. Everyday on the streets of Shenzhen I see pickpockets and thieves going about their business but I dont join in. Nor will I ever join in, even if I am the ONLY one not to be doing it. Is that clear CJ750, or do I need to put it into pigeon English for you?
You say that it does not affect the FT so dont get involved. Well if I was to see a woman being raped or attacked down a back alley I wouldnt say I wont do anything because it is not MY mom, sister, or G/F. But I guess you would, wouldnt you? |
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KES
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 722
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| You say that it does not affect the FT so dont get involved. Well if I was to see a woman being raped or attacked down a back alley I wouldnt say I wont do anything because it is not MY mom, sister, or G/F. But I guess you would, wouldnt you? |
Would you jump into such an altercation in China? You may find the girl and a mob then attacking you for interfering in "Chinese affairs".
Not attempting to bait you, but seriously, how long have you been in China? |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Not attempting to bait you, but seriously, how long have you been in China? |
Deary me kenneth - hope we aint forever turning the blind eye. If so maybe we've been living here for too long.
Thank goodness for a bit of fresh blood!!!!
Last edited by vikdk on Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="englishgibsonDon't lie. Your teachers are your employer's teachers in EF. Respectfully, you are so full of it. And, until this point we still have no idea what EF center you are at...but hell it's none of our business, is it? You keep on filling the EF related forums with your cr*ppy incomplete info and you do not feel a wee bit of guilt here. You should be ashamed with all due respect to whoever you are or claim to be. [/quote]
I haven't lied. Nothing I have posted on this board is untrue.
As I said before, there's no reason for any of you to know where I am. None at all. None of you will ever receive an offer to work here, none of you will ever visit; what does it matter?
I don't see how the information which I have provided is worthy of riduculing; but if that's your opinion, then so be it.
The "my teachers" uses the same "my" as when I referred to "my school" in another thread; an affectionate possessive. Nobody "belongs" to anybody but themselves. However, it's true that none of the teachers here have been subjected to any of the circumstances which I quoted from your earlier post; never have been, and never will be. Not here. If other centres wish to screw around, then that's up to them. But there are a heck of a lot of centres which don't screw around; don't tar us all with the same brush. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| never have been, and never will be. Not here. |
Sonnet - just out of interest - how can you be so sure of this - could you guarantee it? And if by any chance the interests of your teachers started to be negatively affected due to the actions of your employer - how would you be able to turn this situation around????
Is your assured statements based on the influence you hold at your center and the EF organisation - or is it more linked to something that could be likened to blind faith???? |
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