Job Discussion Forums

[desert date]

[trapezius]

Hi desert date,

Yes of course it makes a difference. The heirarchy goes something like this:

- Caucasian native speakers (US, UK, AU, NZ, CA) (assuming their qualifications are obviously from their home country)

- Non-caucasian native speakers -- this includes people of Asian, African, and South American descent born and educated in one of those 5 countries (hence, they are a citizen of one of those 5)

- Immigrants to those 5 countries who are now a citizen of one of those 5, AND were educated in one of those 5

- Immigrants to those 5 countries who are now a citizen of one of those 5, but were NOT educated in one of those 5 (educated in country they migrated from)

- Immigrants to those 5 countries who are not citizens yet

- People not from those 5, still citizens of their own country, BUT EDUCATED in one of those 5

- People not from those 5, still citizens of their own country, and educated in their own country as well (here there maybe several different scales depending on where one is from, for eg, someone from Malaysia or Turkey would rate higher than someone from Pakistan or Egypt)

Of course, that heirarchy could be expanded to have 10 categories, or could be collapsed into 3 by combining some categories.

Your friend has 2 things working for him: He was educated in AU, and is an AU permanent resident. And also that he has experience teaching in AU. As for the fact that he is Malaysian, I can tell you that he rates higher than a lot of other nationalities, namely Indians, Pakistanis, Africans (except South Africans), and many others.

So I am sure he can get a good salary.

BTW, are you female, and involved with him? In that case, it would be better for you to get married before you come out here.

trap

[desert date]

[trapezius]

Haha, it is all cool!

As for me, I have an MS in math from the US (BS in math from US as well), but I don't have a teaching qualification/certification, and that has been the bane of my professional life so far. I have been able to get mediocre teaching jobs in schools in Saudi (American/British curriculum), but that's about it.

Any school I have applied to outside Saudi has said that I need a teaching qualification to work, save a couple of them.

I need to get some teaching qualification soon, or else I will slip through the cracks and disappear. Oh, and as far as teaching in universities goes (which I prefer), again, that is only possible in SOME universities in Saudi. Any university elsewhere asks for a PhD.

So, I am stuck in the middle. I can't teach in schools because I don't have a teaching qualification, and I can't teach in universities because I don't have a PhD

Do you know if there are any "lateral entry" teaching qualification programs in AU/NZ, that is, you become qualified not through doing a course work based program, but a practical program. This is mainly geared towards those who want to enter teaching from other professions. They have something like this in the UK called as GTP (Graduate Training Program). You enter directly into teaching, and learn the tools of the trade practically, without having to take courses and writing "stupid essays" And after 6 months to 1 year, you are given qualified teacher status. I believe such a program exists in the US as well.

So, anything like that in AU/NZ?

Thanks!

P.S. Arab of which country, if you don't mind me asking? I was born in Saudi and raised here as well, but I am from Pakistan.

[Stephen Jones]

It is best to wait for Austalian citizenship; dual salary scales according to nationality are very common, independent of the criteria for hiring trapezius mentions.

[desert date]

Hey trap!

I think we used to have the kind of programme you described back in the days when we didn't have sufficient teacher training colleges and for vocationally-oriented subjects like design and technology.

Now, with almost every university in Oz offering teacher training, most of our teachers come in through the BA/BEd or the BA + DipEd/MTeach route. Still, exceptions may be made in areas of critical shortage or for teachers who don't mind working in the bush! What you need to do is to contact the department of education and training of the state you wish to work in, find out what their requirements are and if you qualify with your existing qualifications.

There are also the private schools which may not be as strict, as they are subjected to different rules. If they offer you a job and are willing to sponsor you, then you're in. For instance, there are Islamic international schools in Oz that pay as much if not better than the local state schools.

What you should really look at, if you're not interested in doing a teacher training course, are the TAFE colleges. I suppose their equivalent in the UK would be polytechnics/HND colleges (community colleges in the States?). You generally need a four-year degree to teach in a TAFE college,. They run all sorts of courses which require mathematical training especially engineering and computer science courses popular with local and international students.

Another option, and one I suggest you seriously look into, is teaching in Singapore. They have an excellent polytechnic system geared towards business, science, engineering and IT education. Singaporean students enter the polytechnics with decent to strong "O" or "A" levels, depending on the course. The minimum qualification for polytechnic teachers is a bachelor's with honours - master's preferred.

I've never had a Singaporean student here who wasn't a joy to teach. Motivated, hardworking and disciplined bunch they are.

I met many South Asians working there when I visited, particularly in the IT and finance industries, with qualifications obtained from their home countries.

The population is about 20% Muslim; there's halal food everywhere (Malay, Chinese, Indian, western) and there's a mosque in almost every housing district. The salary for teachers and trainers are on a par with western standards and there are opportunities for further study at their world-class universities (regularly ranked higher than Oz unis - shameful!).

I think your prospects aren't too shabby at all. Better than a lot of teflers I would say. What passport do you hold? I don't really think it'd be an obstacle; talk up your quals and I presume neutral accent. Aren't there programmes Stateside which sponsor teachers in critical subjects get their credentials? I have a friend from Hong Kong who claims to be in such a programme in NY - and his English is atrocious. According to him, he's not paying a cent and even gets a stipend. But I suspect he won't last a week in an inner city school.

Oh, I'm of Yemeni descent but, by some freak of nature, have light hair, skin and eyes. I'm often mistaken for a Mediterranean.

Just to let you know that I might not come on as often when school starts Monday (I'm on Easter break now) so it may take a while for me to respond to future posts.

Cheers, mate!

[desert date]

trap,

If you have anymore questions about teaching Down Under, I suggest you post them on the AU/NZ board. There are some very experienced teachers there like eslstudies, for one. I believe he has taught in the state system for more than thirty years. Now THAT's something!

dd

[psouthan]

Can someone please tell me what the abbreviation KSA stands for?

[Gogo05]

Hi Psouthan,

KSA = Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Gogo05

[trapezius]

[Van Norden]

Give the guy a break. I mean, how well-known is the abbreviation KSA? I forget, having been here so long.

Didn't we once get RKSA on here once? Or did I dream that?

I'm a dreaming man / Yes that's my problem / I can't tell when I'm not being real

[007]