Job Discussion Forums

anninhk · Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 284

I agree Brian.
I work in an extremely friendly school with teachers who are nothing like those described by 11.59
I often think that teachers who do face difficulties should try and look at their position from the point of view of their local colleagues. I bit of empathy would go a long way!

briandwest · Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 98 Location: Hong Kong

In response to Pieface and in_asia_bill:

It's not all a bed of roses.
- I have 34 lessons of contact time a week which is pretty high for a NET
- I arrived at my normal time of 7:30 this morning to discover no children at school. "Why are you here?" asked my SET. "Because you told me it was a normal school day today," I replied. "But the students are on holiday today and we teachers have meetings all day. Didn't anyone tell you?" came the reply. So here I am waiting for a pointless 1 hour meeting when I could have had a dayoff by speaking to the Principal nicely Crying or Very sad

Website: www.hkpnets.org and www.hkpnetsforum.com
Blog: www.cps.edu.hk/learn_teach/curriculum/sch_curricul/english_corner/index.htm

Pieface · Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 42

I am teaching (on the NET scheme) in my second local school in HK and I have to say that far from feeling 'ostrichsised' (or ostracised), both my schools were more than welcoming. In fact, I still keep in touch with some of the staff from my previous school, and often socialise staff at my current school outside of working hours. The majority of my (albeit small) circle of friends also on the NET scheme are having similarly decent experiences in their schools. Coincidence? I beg to differ.
Perhaps there are indeed some of the grieviances mentioned by 11.59 apparent in a few schools, but I think it is wholly unfair and unreasonable to tar every local school, teacher and citizen with the same brush.

Pieface · Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 42

34 lessons a week is a HUGE amount!! Shocked

lambada · Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 50

Oh, but when it's bad it's bad! Everyone things it's nothing until they experience it personally. There is something really nasty about being alone with the knife going in and the cultural acceptance that dishonesty and cruelty is perfectly acceptable. Just read the stuff about the Institute of Education coming out in the press. This society is riddled with elitism, hypocracy, racism and mono-culturalism and the education system has to take a lot of the blame for it. Before you all tell me to go home, my problem is not HK but the education system. I'm hanging out for equity, diversity and multi-culturalism but it will take a while and it's not very likely under the current education system.

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

I was on the primary NET scheme in its first year. I was in two schools. One was a joy to work in. Great staff and principal, very supportive of everything about the scheme and made me feel very welcome. The other school was a nightmare. Most of the staff were wonderful and also suffering under the principal, but the English panel head was very unsupportive and the principal a nightmare.

As has been said before, it really is a matter of luck whether a NET gets in to a good school or not. It can be wonderful, but yes, at some schools it can be terrible.

hkteach · Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 202 Location: Hong Kong

Just to clarify my earlier comment about NETs being the only westerner in the staffroom and the isolation that this situation often/usually brings.
While it's true that some schools have 2, 3 or 4 NETs or perhaps an ELTA, I think most PNETs are on their own (some schools hire an additonal English teacher but not all).

Of course we're aware of that before we accept a NET job but perhaps we don't realise exactly what that might mean.

It's probably fair to say that before coming here, most of us were under a few illusions about English in Hong Kong and probably imagined that it was spoken more than it actually is.
It's very isolating to be in a staffroom where everyone sits at desks and has very little interaction with anyone for much of the day, even though they are cheek by jowl with colleagues (too busy ). This is weird to those of us who are used to staffrooms being social places (paperwork being done in our own classrooms).

It's isolating to be surrounded by others talking to each other in Canto all the time. You can't understand what's being talked about, laughed about or whispered about. You can't feel a part of the general staffroom chit-chat and that's what I mean when I say it's isolating.

I enjoy good relationships with the teachers at my school (and the cleaners and principal too) but while we might discuss work-related things, it's hard to know people... when you ask what they did on the weekend or in the holidays, you get told " I slept/played computer games/did my schoolwork/did my essay for my degree" etc. etc. Those that left Hong Kong tell you they ate a lot or went shopping. That's about it. Not a lot that we might be able to relate to.

We can't share the humour and little comments we can share in our home countries because the teachers here just wouldn't get the humour - nothing kills a joke more than actually having to explain it. We can't talk about a tv program because they usually only watch Chinese channels. We can't talk about a lot of the little things that make up our daily lives.

So yes, we may have realised that we'd be the only foreigner in the school but it's one thing to realise that, but quite another to understand the ramifications of spending a good deal of your time in a situation where you simply don't understand what's going on around you and where you can't share the little nuances of everyday occurrences.

It's not just a language barrier - it's a whole cultural chasm. It's nobody's fault - it's just the way it is.

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11:59 · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject:

Brian, it is good to see that you have been blessed with a lively sense of significance of your own thoughts and opinions:

hkteach · Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 202 Location: Hong Kong

I agree totally with your observations of the local education system here and the EMB officials who send their kids o/s with hefty allowances paid.

The current Under-Secretary, ( who is Australian and was recruited from there ) has his children here with him here in Hong Kong. Like all other expats' kids, they must attend ESF or international schools. For some time, NETs have been suggesting/requesting some assistance in the way of an education allowance (these school fees seriously dent NET salaries).

In the past couple of days, NETs have received notes of submissions to EMB for same and a comment attributed to this person...."we hire the NET, not the family'" or something along those lines! Indeed.

I wonder if school fees are paid for his kids or are we to believe he has to foot the bill himself?
What's good for the goose.............

Lao Wai · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 20

lambada · Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 50

Interesting posts. It's not really the money. No one can keep going just for bucks or we would get a new job. Basically most of us have our day to day and luxury costs covered and look for something, anything that gives us a purpose or gets the superego charged. For me it's social life and study.

Education can be different here if enough teachers and principals decide they want to change it. I work with one local teacher who is far from perfect, but it a great and devoted teacher, is very strict with the kids, is loved by the kids, has their total attention and minimal disruptions even including kids with serious emotional and socio economic problems. We do have small classes and work on the PLPR programme including phonics etc. These kids are communicative, love English and love to read etc. It's only one subject and two small classes, but for me it's sufficient light. I should point out that I had nothing to do with it. The credit goes to the local teacher. I have just had the privilege of assisting and watching the beneficial aspects unfold over a couple of years.

guangho · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 476 Location: in transit

anninhk · Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 284

That's the problem with a lot of expats - they forget that they are foreigners in a foreign land.
I wonder if they ever consider how foreigners are treated in their own countries? and how they treat them themselves?
A lot still have this sense of superiority and expect to be treated differently. Others behave in a way they would never behave at home - or perhaps they do, and it is condoned in their own country but does not conform to the norms of the country they are in. I expect these are the very same people who want all immigrants in their own countries to follow their customs and ways of behaving.
Talk to any black, brown or Asian person and ask them how they were treated in the West and you'll find that living in Hong Kong as an expat is paradise compared to what they had to put up with.

lambada · Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 50

Annie in HK, I have to disagree although I don't wish to minimise the issue of blatently racist people and the serious issues of racism worldwide. I also accept that there are issues of post colonialist attitudes in countries such as the UK and France and the extreme right often combined with an ingrained class system. But this is not an accurate representation of life in places such as Australia unless you happen to be Aboriginal. Sure there is blatent racism by some, and a fear of the 'yellow peril' among a few, but in day to day life, such as schools and the workplace, there is legislation to minimise the kind of racist activities that are randomly executed in HK and other Asian countries.

I have 2 grown Filipino children in Australia who have rarely experienced any kind of serious racism - one is even a builder in Queensland! There school was almost half of Asian descent. I am not aware of their Vietnamese or Chinese friends experiencing much in the way of problems. Yes racism exists everywhere, but these countries are light years ahead when it comes to promoting and developing multicultural communities. Westerners, particularly Australians, carry this huge and unnecessary guilt complex. In Australian education now, they don't even talk about racism in a format that you would recognise but rather, racism is now being defined as the promotion of being Australian or having an Australian identity � 'culturalism' I think it's called. I call it assimilation, and as a 'Pom', I accept (all jokes aside) my Australianism and acknowledge Oz as one of the best countries in the world to live in, as do my sons.

Here, issues are somewhat more mundane. Last week my Filipino G/F was not allowed to put her stroller in the front of the minibus even though she was holding a baby. She was also refused her receipt when she was overcharged in a 7/11 (until they saw me arrive). The minibuses routinely don't stop for Filipinos but always stop for locals if there is a space. I still get to be the last person sat next to etc. Sometimes people won't even get on! The same thing happens to my Western friends. The scary thing is that nobody even acknowledges that it is racism. Ok, it's not violent, but it is racism and needs to be acknowledged and addressed.

How many Asians, of non Chinese descent, who suffer from local racism the worst, would swap their daily HK experiences for Oz experiences? I still remember the man at Immigration in China screaming at his domestic as she waited for a visa. We generally don't have servants (slaves) in Oz either. The point is that in most Western countries we have legislation to curb the worse excesses � here they seem to legislate the worst excesses into law! Just think about recent decisions in relation to non Cantonese speaking students and schooling.

anninhk · Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 284

While I agree that racism here exists, and is very blatant, towards most non-Hong Kongers - I can'ts ay Chinese because of the attitude to Mainlanders, I was actually looking at it from the point of view of the person who posted before me i.e. white expats in Korea.
When things get me down in school I sometimes consider what would happen in an English staffroom if some foreigner turned up telling the school how to change it's teaching, especially if that foreigner was black or Asian.