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basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| If you've studied Malaysian, you're already well on your way, as the languages greatly resemble one another. |
While there are differences in vocab, naturally, I had always regarded Malay as a more refined version of Bahasa Indonesia. Does anyone else feel the same ? That is, of course, if you are familiar with both.
Just my view.
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Basil |
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-3E-
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Where ever I want to be
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| well from what i researched about the indonesian language, it actually used to be a malaysian trade dialect. So of course I would be under the impression Malay would be the more refined language . |
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Vertumnus
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: Malaysian n Indonesian |
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| -3E- wrote: |
| well from what i researched about the indonesian language, it actually used to be a malaysian trade dialect. So of course I would be under the impression Malay would be the more refined language . |
What language it comes from is not clear. Different people here give me different answers. A Dutch friend of mine says the Dutch introduced it in an effort to help Indonesia. He also admits that the Dutch education about Indonesia was very one-sided.  Another person said that it is from melayu. Another said it's from a part of Indonesia that was once Malaysian. Yet another said it's Malaysian. Whatever the origin, the similarities appear to be many, according to those I've talked to who are from here and have visited Malaysia. Communication is definitely possible, although some words are very different. Sometimes it's just a matter of a spelling difference, but sometimes words are completely different.
That's my two cents worth. |
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basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Communication is definitely possible, although some words are very different |
yes. agreed. i remember my first visit to malaysia. within the first couple of sentences, they knew id spent time in indonesia. but they completely understood even tho the odd vocab item was different. they understand it but wouldnt use it. much like US vs Brit English, id say.
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basil |
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-3E-
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Where ever I want to be
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Malaysian n Indonesian |
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| Vertumnus wrote: |
| -3E- wrote: |
| well from what i researched about the indonesian language, it actually used to be a malaysian trade dialect. So of course I would be under the impression Malay would be the more refined language . |
What language it comes from is not clear. Different people here give me different answers. A Dutch friend of mine says the Dutch introduced it in an effort to help Indonesia. He also admits that the Dutch education about Indonesia was very one-sided. Another person said that it is from melayu. Another said it's from a part of Indonesia that was once Malaysian. Yet another said it's Malaysian. Whatever the origin, the similarities appear to be many, according to those I've talked to who are from here and have visited Malaysia. Communication is definitely possible, although some words are very different. Sometimes it's just a matter of a spelling difference, but sometimes words are completely different.
That's my two cents worth. |
Here is a cut and paste from the Library of Congress website http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+id0057)
" The major languages of Indonesia are Austronesian. Austronesian is a family of agglutinative languages spoken in the area bounded by Madagascar in the western Indian Ocean and Easter Island in the eastern Pacific Ocean. There is a considerable diversity in the languages used in Indonesia. No less than 669 languages--the vast majority are Austronesian, the rest are Papuan and found in parts of Timor, Irian Jaya, and Halmahera--have been accounted for.
Based on very rough estimates that cannot be adequately validated, the primary languages spoken by 1 million or more people included Javanese (70 million), Sundanese (25 million), Malay (10 million), Madurese (9 million), Minangkabau (7.5 million), Bahasa Indonesia (or Indonesian, 6.7 million; see Glossary), Balinese (3 million), Buginese (2.5 million), Acehnese (2.2 million), Toba Batak (2 million), Banjarese (1.8 million), Makassarese (1.5 million), Sasak (1.5 million), Lampung (1.5 million), Dairi Batak (1.2 million), and Rejang (1 million). Additionally, some 2 million inhabitants also spoke one of several dialects of Chinese.
Perhaps the central feature of the Indonesian national culture in the late twentieth century was the Indonesian language. Malay was used for centuries as a lingua franca in many parts of the archipelago. The term Bahasa Indonesia, which refers to a modified form of Malay, was coined by Indonesian nationalists in 1928 and became a symbol of national unity during the struggle for independence (see The National Revolution, 1945-50 , ch. 1). Bahasa Indonesia was spoken in more than 90 percent of households in Jakarta, but outside the capital only 10 to 15 percent of the population spoke the language at home. In Javanese areas, only 1 to 5 percent of the people spoke Bahasa Indonesia in the home. Nationwide, however, some 6.7 million Indonesians used Bahasa Indonesia as a primary language while more than 100 million others used it as a secondary language. In the early 1990s, it was primarily the language of government bureaucracy, schools, national print and electronic media, and interethnic communication. In many provinces, it was the language of communication between Chinese shopkeepers and their non-Chinese patrons. "
Basically, it is a malaysian trade dialect. If you consider all the facts. This is just one example of where I got my research information that Bahasa Indonesia is a malaysian trade dialect. I have researched, because I wanted to learn the language. For me to learn a language is far more than just being able to speak it, but also to understand the history of the language, how it was formed, what languages it was a derivitive of, the types of people who speak it and so on and so forth. |
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guruengerish
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: origins of Indonesian |
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One of the books I read on the language spoke of it coming from Sumatera, and it was a Malay trading language, where some of the words are used from Madagascar to the East of Papua New Guinea.
I just once came across a guy in Bali, who asked me not to speak so fast, as he had never learned Indonesian well at school. A rare example.
Also, many of the poor folk in Makassar cannot speak Indonesian; just try it on a becak driver!! they come in from the fishing villages when things are tough, and schooling was a luxury they had never encountered.
Don't judge everything on life in Java, easy as this may be.
If you are going to study the language, you'll be amazed at the etymology, as so much originates from Portuguese, and of course Dutch. I often wonder what the Indonesians used for garfu, meja or jendela, unless of course they sat outside and ate with their fingers.
To the person planning on arriving later this year, my suggestion is to get out and about and visit other parts of the country. The average teacher has never set foot in Toraja or been to vist the Taman Laut in Menado, to name but two very interesting places.
Go to Toraja during Ramadhan - it's a Chrisitan area and life will go on there.
Trouble is, travelling around the country now could be difficult for US citizens, as no domestic airline meets their civil aviation guidelines. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure why ghost hasn't got the hang of this first person thing yet, but hod would like to say it makes ghost sound rather like the queen.
I learned Malay loads and loads and loads when in Malaysia. The good news is the grammar is easy, there's no articles and pronouncing it is no problem. The bad news for me was people who'd worked in Indonesia spoke Bahasa a hundred times better than me, and that was in their first week in KL.
Unless you live in a field, Malaysians speak too much English for a western foreigner to master the language there. In Indonesia, though, you've got a real opportunity to learn Bahasa. |
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