Job Discussion Forums

[smitten13]

I was told by someone that in a number of schools in the UK, that 'FAILED'
was no longer appropriate as a grading score. The appropriate term now is : DEFERRED SUCCESS.

It would sound consistent with what you are proposing.

[Teatime of Soul]

Thanks to the submitter for the link to the discipline site.

[kev7161]

I think many of us have probably seen this in an email or someplace, but it is apropos to this thread. I wonder if someone could translate it into Chinese and we could pass it out to some of our surlier students?

[johnchina]

James S wrote "A local will say that they did great, even if they do not. I will not. I will take an incorrect answer like "I will go shopping yesterday" and get them to build it and understand how and why it can be better, and then, finally, correct."

I teach in precisely the same manner.

I'm not sure whether I made myself entirely clear. It is now POLICY at my so-called "school" NOT to correct mistakes, since doing so will damage the self-esteem of students.

[Ahchoo]

[smalls]

When I was in the second grade - the teacher had a chair painted red and labeled it 'the hot seat.' Basically, if you were caught screwing off, you had to sit in 'the hot seat.' As you sat there, with your classmates eyes on you, you sweat from the uncomfortable feeling of being called out. And, I am sure, the idea of 'shame' was the intended effect - which seemed to work quite well - can't remember sitting in the chair too often and the idea kept me from acting out.
I have brought trouble makers (quite often some of my brighter students, just not in the traditional sense) to the front to assist (wiping board, handing out papers, collecting papers, etc), tossed them out for five minute breaks, and if really bad - gave them three choices - sing a song in English for the class, ten push-ups, extra homework - and, none too surprising, no one ever chose homework - always push-ups or song.
Have often heard about the shame that is brought upon the child when they are punished in public - but, what about the teacher? Isn't their 'face' the most important in the classroom?
What is the old Chinese saying, kill chicken before a monkey?
I have taken entire classes out for ice cream while at other times have had all heads down on the desk - I definitely believe in positive reinforcement (stickers, smiles, rewards, etc), but punishment and consequences are just as important.
When a child tries and is wrong, I smile, offer encouragement and tell them they will do better next time - try to reinforce the idea of trying.
I remember walking into a middle school - subbing for another teacher - and in the front row, a boy, probably about 16, leaned back in his chair and put his bare feet up on the desk. Before I knew what I was doing, I whacked them off with a small paperback workbook. The teachers in the back moved nervously, and a teacher to my side whispered, 'he just lost face.' While, to this day, I regret having lost my temper like I did, but was baffled by the fact that none saw his behavior as allowing the teacher to lose face.
In my opinion, a little tough love, when giving out in proper measures can go a long way.

[Shan-Shan]

[beck's]

To the O.P. I wouldn't feel too badly about doing what you did to the boys. I wouldn't go overboard with that type of punishment though. It won't work if done over and over again.

I have been a teacher for over thirty years. I am now teaching senior English in a suburban Canadian school. The junior high section of the school is so out of control that the Vice Principal sends the misbehaving students to the senior teachers to discipline. They are running around the halls screaming. I took one 12 year old kid into my class the other day because he was out of control. I yelled at him in front of my senior students and made him sit at the back of the class facing the wall. It was an extreme measure but this kid was literally destroying his junior high class. It worked. He won'tbe back again soon.

What I sometimes do is get the misbehavors to copy a handout that I give them called, "How to succeed in college." That way if the parents call and complain that I am too harsh I can tell them that I am trying to teach their kid how to be successful in college. It's punishment and education all in one. Mostly it works.

[james s]

...

[Shan-Shan]

If using a rolled up, soft covered textbook to gently "tap" said student's feet could result in termination, then I agree such a response would be inappropriate.

I'm looking at the "foot on desk" situation from my current teaching perspective: students are university aged, and there is no principal's office. I also imagine that a 23 year old "man" complaining that the teacher hit his feet with a soft book would not lead to my dismissal.

I never use physical intimidation against my students either. Instead, a loud "bang" on my desk gets them to shut up; forced relocation with the girls at the front also helps in getting the "simply taking up space" boys at the back to pay attention and learn something.

Making sarcastic and mildly deriding comments in Chinese to help untangle fingers tangled up in cellphone number pads works wonders as well.

When monkey speak people speak, people listen.

[eslstudies]

Old Chinese saying: Kill the rooster to frighten the monkey. If any student's [of any culture] behaviour during entry to a class, or while the class is yet to begin, is out of line, I "invite" the student outside, point out the inappropriateness of what they've done - or rather get them to describe it - then ask them to re-enter and get ready for class in the proper manner.

The other students sit up and take note. I rarely need to do this more than once. "Face" isn't a reason: its an excuse.

Kill the rooster.

As for this "no-fail" debate: in Australian high schools we give a percentage and an A-E grade, with a U reserved for under 30%. 50% will win a C grade, as will 69%. Nonsense? Dead right. However, parents and students tend to focus on the percentage.
Many of my Chinese ESL students bombed out big-time, a first for them. Daddy's money couldn't help them, and for the first time in 18 years they were going to have to be personally accountable for their actions.

[vikdk]

This debate has made me wonder how new FT's with no knowledge of Chinese, who have been given no Chinese teaching assistance, and have been pushed into those strictly English only classroom environments, which have been made rather comical because the their students don't understand English (the wondrous world of English emersion) - cope with the problem of explaining they won't tolerate bad behavior - and what are the rules of their classroom????

Do they have a flashcard of a thunderbolt, or indeed for the very worse classes a chainsaw - or is it a simple matter of bridging the language barrier by using threatening fists or throwing a chair body language? I suppose in such circumstances miming going crazy (throwing a few bodies outside or parading them infront of the audience) or carrying on and attempting to teach are the only options - no wonder many Chinese students look forward to the FT hour as a great source of entertainment

[latefordinner]

vikdk, that was a good post. Won't always agree with you, but yes it does make one wonder <wink>.
But of course there will always be a minor point or two of disagreement.

[vikdk]

[7969]