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dreaming_saturn
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 37
Location: Netherlands
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: Returning to Canada after years teaching abroad... where to |
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Hi all,
I'm planning on returning to Canada after teaching abroad for over 6 years, 4 in the Netherlands ( business english, high school and IELTS test prep) one year in China and one year in Korea.
I'm a Canadian citizen but my credentials are all international, BA in Education from England, RSA/CELTA certificate and the equivalent of a B.Ed in ESL for high school in the Netherlands.
I have two questions, with these credentials, and I likely to find a job or is the market in Canada flooded? Will my credentials and experience be recognized?
Also, which city would you say is the best to move to for an ESL position? I have family in Ontario but would consider another province - I'm coming with my Dutch Husband who works in IT.
Looking forward to the reverse culture shock 
Thank you |
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Jetgirly
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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If you got your B.Ed evaluated and it was deemed to be equivalent to a Canadian degree, you could get a job in a public school system as an ESL teacher's aide. You would provide in-class and pull-out support to ESL students within their K-12 schools. You would get paid less than a regular teacher but your job would also be a lot easier. There isn't much demand for ESL-only high school teachers... that is considered a secondary subject area (at least it is in BC and Alberta). You need a primary subject area like English Language Arts, Social Studies, Math or Science to get hired... and then you can pick up ESL classes when they become available.
Canadian employers will probably be confused by the fact that you have both a BA in Education and a BEd.
I don't know much about the private language school market. I taught at a community college last summer (I have a BA in English and a CELTA). It was just a temporary contract though. Decent pay but no benefits. I wouldn't have stuck around longer than the summer. |
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danielita
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 281
Location: SLP
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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You might want to look at Toronto. Especially if your husband is in IT. TO has lots of IT jobs on offer and at worst, you could get and ESL job at IH or something like that while you wait for your degrees to be evaluated. The only challenge with teaching ESL in Ontario is that most schools require you to be TESL Ontario certified which is a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy....
Good Luck,
D |
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domino13
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:49 am Post subject: York Region, Toronto or Mississauga |
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Hello,
I know that York Region (just North of Toronto and one of the fastest growing regions in Canada) has a lot of immigration and need for ESL teachers. I have a friend who teaches ESL in the York Catholic District School Board, they are training their own ESL teachers through part-time adult education programme, so it would stand to reason they are in short supply.
www.ycdsb.on.ca
Another friend teaches for the Toronto District School Board--he feels there is a great need for ESL in that board as well. Logically I would also consider Mississauga, just west of Toronto, a large cosmopolitan city.
www.tdsb.on.ca
All of these areas also offer great IT employment opportunities and many families that live in one of these communities will commutes to the other 2 for work (ie. I live in Toronto, work in Mississauga wife works in York Region)
For jobs in both categories you can check out http://www.torontojobclassifieds.com
Good Luck |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: Re: York Region, Toronto or Mississauga |
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| domino13 wrote: |
| I have a friend who teaches ESL in the York Catholic District School Board, they are training their own ESL teachers through part-time adult education programme, so it would stand to reason they are in short supply. |
I love this type of reasoning. Community Colleges use it all the time in their advertising all the time. It gets around discussing how things really are and talks about a theory that may or may not be true. It's like saying that if a company goes to private business collegeX to upgrade employees training, then it stand to reasson that graduates of that business college would have a leg up on the competition for getting jobs at that company. It may stand to reason, but it's usually not true in the least. Upgrading training is not the same as initial training and experience.
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...Another friend teaches for the Toronto District School Board--he feels there is a great need for ESL in that board as well. |
There is great need, that is certainly true. But teachers are not in short supply. Money is, though. They don't have any, because funding was cut for this type of thing and virtually all increases to funding for education are going to k-12 teacher salaries and operating costs.
It's similar to getting a job as a male primary teacher- there is great 'need' (if need is the right word for a desire to have many types of faces in classrooms throughout the province). But there is annecdotal evidence that the males who get B.ed to teach at the primary junior level are finding it extremely difficult to find employment ('there ***must*** be something wrong with males who want to teach grade 2 kids').
The OP should take a look at the TESL Ontario web site for recognized programmes (they include most of the community colleges and many of the universities in the province as well). Every one of these programmes graduates people (usually 30 or more) every year to work in the adult ESL area. There are far, far more people with training than there are jobs. Many of them (and by 'them' I mean 'us') change work areas quickly (read 'get a job at Starbucks' or 'do whatever they were doing before spending a year at college/university and thousands of dollars to get training') or go overseas. With connections you can get a job teaching ESL in Toronto or Ontario, and if you don't have training, then your friends can hook you up with that, too.
In Asia the desireable face for an English teacher is the young, blond hair, blue eye (and truthfully, a little on the dim side) recent graduate. In Ontario, it's female (the claim that 'all males who want to teach ESL are only in it for an exotic wife' is pretty common with some ESL teachers), over forty years old with spouse who is the main bread-winner. |
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choctawmicmac
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Just don't come to Quebec. No matter what people say about the need for English teachers here, because no one really wants to learn English you will get nowhere. Unless you have contacts here already. It's more about who you know than what you can do. |
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canadashirleyblue
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Why do you want to return to Canada?
Getting a job will be difficult at BEST. Your husband will have more opportunities than you but it won't be easy for him either. You will need to apply to the Ontario College of Teachers and get your qualifications evaluated. Your ESL is unlikely to be recognized. You will probably have to do many years on the supply list before anything permanent comes your way.
Do you have a job? Could you get one easily? Do you have a good lifestyle? If you do why would you be willing to give it up! |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I notice that a lot of the complaints about lack of ESL jobs are coming from Ontario. Maybe you folks should check out Vancouver; I've noticed a lot of work being advertised there, and even from overseas I've managed a couple of telephone interviews. I'm confident I'll find work there when I get back. |
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canadashirleyblue
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Did you do your ESL training in Canada? |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| canadashirleyblue wrote: |
| Did you do your ESL training in Canada? |
Who? Me? Yes. Why? |
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canadashirleyblue
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Because dreaming_saturn didn't. Neither did I.
I think getting a job anywhere in Canada without qualifications they recognize could be challenging. |
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dreaming_saturn
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 37
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| canadashirleyblue wrote: |
Because dreaming_saturn didn't. Neither did I.
I think getting a job anywhere in Canada without qualifications they recognize could be challenging. |
I got the RSA/CELTA in England, and according to the TESL Canada website ( http://www.tesl.ca/) :
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The TESL Canada Board has passed a motion to allow applicants who have completed a CELTA Certificate Program at an institution not recognized by TESL Canada to apply for Certification through the regular application process. An additional administrative fee of $100 will be charged in these cases in order for TESL Canada administration to review information regarding the program that would have otherwise been submitted if the program had been through the TESL Canada Teacher Training Program Recognition process. Provided the CELTA Program is assessed at TESL Canada Standards, the applicant will be granted TESL Canada Certification without being referred to PLAR (Prior Learning Assessment Recognition). |
Looks like I'll have to pay 100 dollars and ensure it's from a valid institution, but deemed acceptable.
It also looks like British Degrees are seen as equal to Canadian Degrees. My teaching qualification for public schools, however, is not up to standard
After researching, I've decided that Vancouver is a much better option than Toronto. There just seems to be more jobs and less of a credential craze in the ESL field.
Canadashirley wrote:
Why come back to Canada?
Well, after trying to make ends meet in a small apartment and outrageous taxes in the Netherlands, we're ready to see some open spaces. As much as I love the country, it's just easier to live in Canada. Other parts of Europe are easier for the ESL teacher. |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Frankly, I think the TESL Canada requirement is a bit of a scam.
I have an unrelated bachelors degree and a 4-week TEFL certificate from a language school in Vancouver. This certificate is essentially a copy of a CELTA, but without the name. When I took the certificate in 2003 the school didn't have TESL Canada approval, but received it the next year. When I wrote to TESL Canada they told me I'd have to pay the fee to have my certificate evaluated to see whether it met their standards.
I then wrote to the language school and asked for their opinion. They told me the program they offer didn't change from 2003 to 2004, and that my certificate would be TESL Canada approved if I'd just taken the class a year later. I was then told I probably shouldn't worry about it, as most schools in the Vancouver area either don't care about TESL Canada approval, or are looking for someone with a higher qualification such as a DELTA or MA. |
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Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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When I wrote to TESL Canada they told me I'd have to pay the fee to have my certificate evaluated to see whether it met their standards.
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I encountered something similar with my TESL certificate's "substandardness".
The certificate (a university credite program) is approved by the government of B.C. The program length outstrips most other TESL certificates (over 360 hours of undergraduate courses in linguistics and education with a focus on grammar description, phonology and phonetics, etymology, second teaching theory and methodology, and a supervised 30 hour practicum: these numbers alone should be enough "Standard Two"), and somewhat strict entrance requirements (GPA requirements, IELTS band 8 for non-native speakers, and a rather intensive interview), yet TESL Canada still requires that I pay around $300 to "check" whether or not the certificate is the equivalent of a non-university administered 150 hour TESL course from a private school in downtown Vancouver.
Fortunately, after contacting my former university about the TESL Canada conundrum, I was mailed a letter which has been used by many teachers in lieu of TESL Canada's blessing to prove that the TESL Certificate is credible, is accredited by the B.C. government, and does not require TESL Canada's thumb-up as it already receives yearly scrutiny and recognition from higher powers.
This said, does anyone know whether or not "donations" are required by education institutes to participate in the TESL Canada evaluation scheme? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Slightly off-topic, but the Canadian gov't seems to me to have a large, active department engaged in figuring out ways to extract money from people that are just barely logical enough to seem marginally credible.
For example, every time I enter the country, I have to pay an 'import fee' for my dog (the only actual native-born Canadian in our family). Last time they tried to call it an 'inspection fee' but since they won't allow me to remove the dog from his crate, that doesn't really fly either...
Anyway, the certification check-out fee sounds like a another of those fees based on very scant logic... |
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