Job Discussion Forums

[Dr.J]

We all do things in class which students don't like but, after a long while, thank us for. E.g setting homework, making random groups etc. We endure unpopularity until it works out (the pain barrier).

But sometimes we do things which students don't like because they are just crap ideas.

Is there any way of telling the difference without taking a whole term?

[dyak]

Just do the 'folded arms' count, if it's higher than 50% you're probably not on to a winner.

[denise]

I think it depends to a degree on how critical of yourself you can be.

Look at what went wrong and ask what its purpose was. E.g., "that homework assignment that nobody did, or that they all complained about, was designed to prepare them for X, Y, and Z, which they will need in order to..." In such a case, I'd say you can rest assured that it wasn't crap. (at least, not in the planning... planning and execution are sometimes painfully different, as I know all too well...)

If you find yourself saying (and this is where honesty with yourself comes in), "Um, that assignment was designed to...uh, keep them busy..." then maybe the students' pained or catatonic expressions are valid.

I am wrestling with a semi-related issue in a reading class now: I had what I thought was a great idea to get the students involved, make them active readers instead of passive, etc., etc., but it is a major organizational headache, and it just hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. I'm only halfway through the term, and I've got them scheduled to do this particular activity two more times, and it's part of their grade for the course--can't back down now. I'll just have to wait to the end of the term to see if they got anything out of it, and if I want to bother with it again.

d

[Kurochan]

Sometimes it's hard to tell. That's one of the problems of being employed at a school where your rehiring depends on student evaluations at the end of the first semester (the way it does at mine). Your students might not appreciate being forced to learn grammar, working on pronunciation, not being allowed to cheat, or being told to put away their cell phones when class begins until later on, when you've been terminated because of bad evaluations. In the end, students sometimes end up pining over teacher who were fired because of their own negative comments.

For me, one way I can tell if an activity was no good was if it took a long time to prepare, but it turned out to be useless -- like just confusing for the students, or unweildy to use in class. That's one fault I have -- coming up with these convoluted games and activities that seem great at the time, but don't work out in practice. Also, I think about an activity or lesson, and sometimes I find I harped on these really niggling, useless little points. Like, why was I so stuck on making my sixth graders learn the phrase "a fork in the road"? Even I don't know why, looking back on it! But as you mentioned, the problem with these realizations is that they come after the fact. I guess that's just the way teaching is. You do your best, hone what you're doing, try to learn to adapt to different groups of students, and hopefully improve your work over time.

[denise]

[SueH]

Denise, I _do_ like your posts.
It's your honesty and my laugh of recognition. I'm sure we all have similar dire experiences at times, but it's nice to have it confirmed so that I don't beat myself up too much over a bad lesson.

Thanks also to others in a similar vein - the folded arms test... how true!

Sue

[dduck]

[denise]

Why, thank you, Sue!

d

[Roger]

Ladies and gents,
I am sure everybody here is well-intentioned, as am I, but sorry, my experience leads me to believe all does not depend on us alone. In fact, it's way too unfair to expect a single person of reduced authority to be able to control a gang of 40 and more pampered little miscreants, pardon me: little Chinese emperors and empresses.
Today I taught extracurricular English (read: Extra English practice in a primary school, offered by a private training centre for children whose parents pay extra), and while I thought I was noticing an obvious improvement to their rowdiness, I still got bogged down in useless disciplinary actions, hollering and repeating myself.
Anyway, the kids have learnt a couple of things, such as to stand up when I begin class (I shout, "Stand up!"), and they do stand up, then, they greet me "Good afternoon, sir!" - yes: "Sir", no longer that stupid "teacher"-thing!).
But there was this little jumpy ten-year old boy who nearly always did the very oppoosite of what I said, always keeping his gleeful smirk on, that actually ruined one of thea activities in which he was supposed to give pairs of students instructions as to where they must go. He deliberately misinformed them (in CHinese, of course, not in English as I had taught him), laughing all the while.
Sorry, but in my opinion Chinese parents should be punished by watching their own kids without having a chance of talking to them. Yes, some of these little monsters are a big pain in the a..s, because school life is boring (I agree!), and parents don't realise that their own child hates school, and particularly extra lessons for which those stupid parents pay extra money.
These kids have to put on brave faces - to please their parents; so if their parents want to know "what did you study this week?", the kid usually remembers nothing, and you, of course, did not "teach" him to "read that (stupid!) textbook". The parents demand an explanation, because they monitor their child's "progress, and they won't buy a Westerner's explanations.
Not only are these kids enormously unruly, they also are antisocial due to their upbringing as single children in modern households that are flush with money, which students now aged 20 did not experience.

[dduck]

I thought you spoke Chinese, Roger. Can't you correct this misinformation yourself?

I think in your particular case Roger, you need to behave more like a Drill Sergeant than a teacher. However, lest you forget, there classes out there, in the big bad world, where you don't need to shout at your students to get them to do something. I imagine China was like this at one time.

Iain

[Lynn]

I've made the mistake of thinking what would work with one class would work just as well with another.
Example:
Class A: Everyday I'd make them sit in a different seat according to something I made up: alphabetical last name, first name, country distance to New York, apartment distance to school, etc...The students would moan and groan, but they'd get up and move to their new seats. However, after class, I'd get so many comments; especially from the Korean students (class was 51% Korean). "Oh, thank you teacher! I live with my Korean uncle and I work at a Korean shop. Even though I'm in the US I still feel like I'm in Korea. I come to school and sit with Koreans. But becaues of you I've been able to really use my English with my classmates from other countries. I take 4 classes at this school and you are the only teacher who willl separate us. Thank you so much. Your class is my favorite." I didn't just get this from one student. It came from several.

So, I try this with another class at a different school. They were not happy at all. They didn't mind moving around the room for "pair work", but I noticed they liked to return to the original desk when pair work finished.

[Dr.J]

Thanks for the replies.

Kurochan, Denise, excellent point. I too have had many tragic paper-cutting lessons. I think it's a mental relief just to cut things up for half an hour so teachers are drawn to it. Another area I've learned to pull away from is my own personal interests and hobby horses.

Iain I share your idealism, but when it comes to children they are often not able to participate this fully. They often don't know or can't understand what's best for them.

[schminken]

Boy, I'm glad I found this thread!

I teach in a technical university. English is part of the cirriculum and every semester has to take the subject. However, English is often treated as "just" a soft skill and inferior to all the other technical subjects. At night, I teach the part-time students. These are working adults I'm talking about here. They have 3 hour classes, 10 times per semester.

Ok so last night, I had the mother of all bad lessons. I teach a lot of Business English and ESP but it's really hard to motivate these night students because they are tired from work etc. etc. So I was teaching writing routine, positive business letters. I had this brilliant idea to give them an academic text. I gave them an hour in class to read the thing. These are advanced students with 15-20 years of English behind them.
Well after the hour was over, all I heard was "This is sooooo boring" and "We don't want to do this!". So then we had the "I am not your entertainer. This is a university" talk. They all had their arms folded. I was mad. They were mad. We were all mad. Talk about cutting the tension with a knife.....

I hate days like that. It makes me feel horrible. Was it me? Was it sooo bad? Was it them? Should I have to spoon feed them everything?

[dduck]

I really should get 'Dogme' tattoed across my forehead.

I mentioned negotiating with your students, it's much easier to do with adults because you can engage in some meaningful dialogue. However, it's still possible with children but you do it on another level. For example, you can ask "do you want to Option A, or Option B?" If neither idea sparks an instant YYYYYYYYYYyeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh! then you know you've got some more background work cut out for yourself.

Schminken, I gave one class to some advanced students, just two of them. By the end of it, they looked tired, bored, exhausted and frustrated. After the class one of them said that she felt really bad about her speaking ability. She looked so dejected that I thought she was going to quit the class. At the next class, I asked them both what they wanted to do: in a matter of minutes we can up with some ideas. In the weeks afterwards, they and I felt better about our classes, and they understood that if they were unhappy that I'd listen eagerly to what they had to say. It's sometimes not enough to put an offer like that on the table, students sometimes need to take the reins before they feel fully engaged in a class.

Iain

[Capergirl]

It always surprises me to get students in my classes who seem to think it is my job to make them learn English. I assure them that the effort they put in directly correlates to how well they will do in the ESL program. The students who do their work and spend time exploring the language outside the four walls of the classroom are the ones who advance the quickest. I have a new group now from Russia and they haven't quite gotten this concept yet. They are waiting for me to wave a magic wand and put English into their heads.

As for negotiating, I don't spend much time doing that except for tutorials. In a tutorial, students have a lot of input. In our regular classes, however, there is a curriculum to follow. Some flexibility exists, but I simply can't let the students take the reigns in class because everything I do in class has to be documented and reviewed.

As for "edutainment", I got out of that line of work a while ago. My students are all adults (some much older than me) and they shouldn't need a song and dance to go with their English lesson.