| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
|
 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| kev7161 wrote: |
| This is probably veering off topic a bit, but how many of our posters originally came to China because you NEEDED a job? |
I was actually referring the fact that many teachers come here and find work or come here with a job lined up but no commitment yet. In those cases there is a lot of pressure to sign up with a school (the need that I referred to) as there is a fear that if you don�t take the job on offer then you may be out in the cold.
Of course there is other work out there, but I can certainly see teachers taking a less than ideal job rather than facing the prospect of walking away from the job that they came here to take and starting from scratch.
It is easy to say but it seems to me that it is vital that teachers either negotiate the terms of their contracts to their satisfaction or accept the terms that are offered for the duration of the contract. Accepting upfront and then complaining afterwards doesn�t seem to be a very fruitful way of going about things.
In answer to your question though Kev there would no doubt be foreign teachers here who did need a job so came here looking for one, but my guess is that the vast majority of us actually chose to come here for other reasons.
| cj750 wrote: |
| negotiation is one thing..but how to deal with perceptions as to the obligations of the contract is a horse of another color...the Chinese often start the negotiations after the signing of the contract... |
And that to me is exactly why having a clear written contract stating each parties obligations is so important. I can only imagine what sort of a mess someone would be in if they had nothing in writing and found themselves working for such an employer.
| cj750 wrote: |
| to anyone who has any experience in China this statement seems naive as the landscape of business understandings is not the same in china as any other place. The Chinese take a lot of understanding from the demands of the moment and not on past agreements based on then..as they say..this is now and everything has changed...... |
Which again is a good reason to ensure everything is clearly written down. You are not going to have much chance of getting what you are entitled to if it is not written down.
| cj750 wrote: |
| To many teachers fail to understand the culture of contractual practice which allows for the altering of the contract after the agreement..you will never stop negotiating for what has already been agree upon or for any future items that have not be discussed pre contract ... |
And again if you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in such a situation then being without a clear written contract is not going to be very helpful. If you have everything written down then it will make it easier to discuss problems and also much easier should a third party become involved. An employer may certainly try to change the terms of a contract but if you have it written down and are unhappy about the changes then you have a pretty good chance of rectifying things � without anything in writing I don�t like your chances.
I am afraid I don�t really understand the argument that goes along the lines of written contracts are not respected in China so you are somehow better off not having one!
Contracts are not magic shields but they are a very practical way of avoiding and dealing with problems. Having a clear contract not only helps both parties to understand obligations upfront (employers generally won�t put in writing something that they don�t agree to they will prefer verbal agreements) but helps to overcome �misunderstandings� when they occur. Finally they help any third party who may become involved in the event of a dispute. My advice � getting in writing is not going to hurt but could certainly help! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| am afraid I don�t really understand the argument that goes along the lines of written contracts are not respected in China so you are somehow better off not having one! |
Clark, This must be the post in your head cause no one has made this claim ..
the only thing claimed here is that there is no reliance on contract or third party mediation cause there is no governing body beside the court system ..and this is not often available for a variety of reasons .. you negotiate before during and after contractual obligations here in China..and a reliance of the contract to insure your work agreements is ensuring that in many cases you will be unhappy with the conditions of your work unit...
but with you unfamiliarity with SAFEA contracts, Clark .... how would you know? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Great to see AN EXPERT ON CONTRACTS on our forums 
| Quote: |
| We often see posts here suggesting .... |
Yes, we do .. and quite respectfully you have suggested so many things on numberous posts of yours
| Quote: |
| I am not disagreeing... |
You have also offered your agreements as well as disagrements on scores of issues that you know
How lovely to see your schools in Taiwan and China available on our forums 
I hope that you know how tough those Chinese contracts may be
Peace to ya buximan
and
cheers and beers to our reading skills before singin' on to those s*ckers  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Clearly having everything in writing is going to be to your advantage - not a magic shield mind you - but far better off than ignoring your contract on the belief that others will also.
cj750 wrote:
but with you unfamiliarity with SAFEA contracts, Clark .... how would you know? |
again ..no one has suggested ignoring a contract..why do you continue....
| Quote: |
am not disagreeing that the interpretation of contracts by Chinese people is sometimes more fluid than in the west, but I stand by my suggestion that having things clearly written down is going to be a help and not a hinderance to avoiding and resolving problems that result from this.
|
no one has said it will be a hindrance..just don't rely on it..
| Quote: |
really get the impression that some people prefer to just point to the obvious problems in the system without offering any solutions. If I have misunderstood your argument then feel free to clarify.
|
again not sure who you mean...and simple clarifying a contract will in no way offer a solution in most conflicts...the Chinese do not care what is written ... and the mediation you speak of has no teeth..it happen so rarely that it cannot be counted on..
| Quote: |
I have disagreed with this before as I will again. Mediation can be sought with anyone that one or both parties feel could be helpful in resolving the issue. I think that what you are referring to is arbitration not mediation.
|
it is statements such as these that indicate your "frontin" and have little experience with problem abatement in China...
| Quote: |
| How is this last sentence related to the discussion anyway? Oh, yes, you must add a slight against anyone who disagrees with you I would recommend that you stick to what you know CJ750 as each time you make assumptions about me you have a tendency to be wrong. |
I will call BS on anyone who I think is misrepresenting their experience and offering advice.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
