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NNS husband, raising a family, pay, quality of life Qs
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:52 am    Post subject: NNS husband, raising a family, pay, quality of life Qs Reply with quote

Trying to figure out where a good place to go with a NNS husband could be. We want to get out of Peru and South America and are looking at Asia, the Middle East and Europe.

Many people have recommended Taiwan, Japan and Korea. So my question is, what do you think of Taiwan as a place to settle down in and raise a family? Is it doable? Financially, we're used to scrimping and saving. And hopefully will be making some property investments to help support us as well.

Any thought?
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BigWally



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're not Taiwanese, or married to a Taiwanese it is almost impossible to own property, or a business here. Unless you take on a business partner, which I have heard endless horror stories about.

What do you plan on doing for a living? Can you speak Chinese or Taiwanese? Can you speak English? The job market is pretty reliant on being able to speak at least one of these languages fluently, if you cant, then you may want to consider elsewhere.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigWally wrote:
What do you plan on doing for a living? Can you speak Chinese or Taiwanese? Can you speak English? The job market is pretty reliant on being able to speak at least one of these languages fluently, if you cant, then you may want to consider elsewhere.


Sorry, I meant property here in Peru. WE want to buy property here and rent it out.

My husband doesn't speak those languages fluently, however he could work off the internet.

I can speak English, I'm American. Lived in China, so I learnt some Chinese, however, it's been a while.

Would schools get visas for both of us?
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TaoyuanSteve



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to sort out what "NNS" means. Does it mean non-native speaker of English?

Settle down and raise a family? Most foreigners who have families here are either expats on packages, who can send their kid to high priced international schools, or have local spouses and the children are eurasians who speak Mandarin fluently. Schooling will be an issue for families that do not fit either category. The first issue will be language. If the child is not already fluent in Chinese up to par with the grade being entered, forget about local schools. Then there the issues of being the only fully ethnic caucasian in a Chinese school. It would be hell. Finally, the education system here is inferior. There are reasons why overseas study is so popular with anybody who can afford it. You would be left with home schooling as the only realistic option.

Maybe owning property here will not be one of your goals, but it is possible. Just don't ask for credit, though, for anything.

You may be able to get a spousal visa for your hubby if you come here. I know it's possible, but I've only ever seen it done in the cases of expats on packages. Not sure how willing a school here will be to do the extra work to secure a visa for a spouse.

Think seriously about whether or not Taiwan is a place to settle down in. The only foreigners who typically do that are married to Taiwanese.

Edit: I see you also ask about pay and quality of life. This would depend on how much your hubby is able to earn. While it may be possible to scrape by onone teachers salary, you have to ask why you would choose to do this in a foreign country. If scraping by is accpetable, why not return to the states with your hubby (at least he'll be able to work legally)?
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
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Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NNS is non-native speaker of English

Having our kids go to international schools isn't really top of the list. We'd rather have them go to a regular school, learn the language and interact with the locals.

We don't want to go to the States for rvarious reasons, safety, living in a bubble. WE want to go to a country which is neither his nor mine.
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Jamer



Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to promote raising families in America....But one of the biggest things I noticed teaching in Taiwan was how grateful I am to be raised and educated in the USA. I mean I almost cried a bit when I asked my kids whether or not they play sports or pay attention to them, and the TW kids had no idea what I was talking about. Conversely, in a slightly different subject, I noticed that when the children played they got into fights often and they proved very difficult to resolve, yet if they played sports and learned the essence of teamwork and cooperation, I'm certain the fighting would have been lessened....Moreover, having to sit in a classroom 12 hours a day, doing non-critically thinking repitious exercises in an ultra competive education setting would have easily sent me to suicide rather than busting my butt, critically thinking in a supportive atmosphere 7-8 hours a day.


For me, I can't say whether I would raise a child in USA but I would not desire to do it in TW
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TaoyuanSteve



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Having our kids go to international schools isn't really top of the list. We'd rather have them go to a regular school, learn the language and interact with the locals.


You are really showing how much you don't know about this place. Sending a foreign child to a school here would not be an option for numerous reasons. Think again.

Read what I've already written again:

Quote:
If the child is not already fluent in Chinese up to par with the grade being entered, forget about local schools. Then there the issues of being the only fully ethnic caucasian in a Chinese school. It would be hell. Finally, the education system here is inferior. There are reasons why overseas study is so popular with anybody who can afford it. You would be left with home schooling as the only realistic option.


Let's see what else you've written:

Quote:
We don't want to go to the States for rvarious reasons, safety,


Safety? Well, ok. Locals are not often aggressive toward foreigners (but that doesn't mean never). However, the drivers are homicidal on the roads.

Quote:
living in a bubble.


How about living in a fish bowl?

Quote:
WE want to go to a country which is neither his nor mine.


And you'll trade that for a country to which you can never belong, in which you'll always be the foreigner no matter how long you've been here. You'll be living in a country for which neither of you has citizenship. You'll be living as guest workers who can be deported easily. You'll have restrictions on your life such as the ability to obtain credit, open businesses and work in vocations of your own choosing (outside of teaching). Your husband will likely not be able to work legally. Your children will face discrimination, live under immense competitive pressures, have their critical thinking, individuality and creativity beaten out of them by the school system. They'll be thought of as stupid if their Chinese isn't native. If you (and you will) decide to return to the states or Peru, your kids will have a tough time reintegrating into the school system of those countries. Finally, I'm pretty sure foreign parents cannot enroll their kids into Taiwanese schools. The child has to have a Taiwanese parent.

You really ought to consider living in a country for which one of you has citizenship, both of you have something approaching equal opportunity and your children will have a shot at a normal childhood.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TaoyuanSteve wrote:
If the child is not already fluent in Chinese up to par with the grade being entered, forget about local schools. Then there the issues of being the only fully ethnic caucasian in a Chinese school. It would be hell. Finally, the education system here is inferior. There are reasons why overseas study is so popular with anybody who can afford it. You would be left with home schooling as the only realistic option.


WE'd want them to be born in the country, so they would learn Chinese from birth.

Quote:
living in a bubble.

I said that we don't want to live in a bubble.

Quote:
WE want to go to a country which is neither his nor mine.


TaoyuanSteve wrote:
If you (and you will) decide to return to the states or Peru, your kids will have a tough time reintegrating into the school system of those countries. Finally, I'm pretty sure foreign parents cannot enroll their kids into Taiwanese schools. The child has to have a Taiwanese parent.

You really ought to consider living in a country for which one of you has citizenship, both of you have something approaching equal opportunity and your children will have a shot at a normal childhood.


WE're trying to research so that we don't want to go back to the States or Peru, but continually live abroad.

Maybe Taiwan isn't for us. Didn't know about the Taiwanese school, that you need to have a Taiwanese parent.

Thanks for the info, you're right, I don't know too much about Taiwan, that's why I'm trying to ask questions and find out. You've been very helpful.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamer wrote:
For me, I can't say whether I would raise a child in USA but I would not desire to do it in TW


Where would you raise a family?
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dangerousapple



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cannot enroll a child into the public education system here unless you have Taiwan household registration, which is not something a family made up of two foreigners can do.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
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Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess that takes Taiwan off the list.
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TaoyuanSteve



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:


WE'd want them to be born in the country, so they would learn Chinese from birth.


If you speak any language other than Mandarin in your home (and you will) with your children, they cannot be said to have spoken the language from birth or be native speakers. But, aside from that, language is only part of the reason local schools are not an option for foreign kids in Taiwan and I think I pointed that out already.

naturegirl321 wrote:

I said that we don't want to live in a bubble.


Actually, I said living in a fish bowl.


naturegirl321 wrote:
WE're trying to research so that we don't want to go back to the States or Peru, but continually live abroad.

Maybe Taiwan isn't for us. Didn't know about the Taiwanese school, that you need to have a Taiwanese parent.

Thanks for the info, you're right, I don't know too much about Taiwan, that's why I'm trying to ask questions and find out. You've been very helpful.


If you really insist on "living abroad" to raise your family, I suggest you try to relocate to a country that will allow both your husband and yourself to immigrate (ie not just live in the country temporarily on work permits) and establish permanent residence with relative ease. It's one thing if you and your partner want to travel and work in some countries abroad for a while, but quite another when you want to have a family and settle down. At that point normalcy, citizenship, quality of education, opportunity and such become more important.

As far as the Taiwanese school thing is concerned, you are going to find that many countries are like this. It's going to mean you will most likely have to choose between your husbands country, your own or international schools when your kids reach school age.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TaoyuanSteve wrote:
If you really insist on "living abroad" to raise your family, I suggest you try to relocate to a country that will allow both your husband and yourself to immigrate (ie not just live in the country temporarily on work permits) and establish permanent residence with relative ease.


Maybe Asia isn't a good place for us then. Possibily Easter or Central Europe.
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Jamer



Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:

Where would you raise a family?


Probably Canada or Sweden...Much better quality of life in both those countries....
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My husband wants to go to Finland. Never seen an EFL job posting for there though
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