Job Discussion Forums

[kirez]

The network effect is quite relevant, as someone suggested above --- if they're going to incur the hassle of employing non-Arabic or poor-English-speaking foreigners, they're going to get ALL of them from the same country/ethnic group: Indians. It just makes sense. These are 95% teamwork jobs and the Indians work together. Also, Indians and Pakis work reasonably well together and speak similar English.

The fact that he's a DBA with Oracle and Cisco quals is very promising --- moreso than most other professions I thought the OP might mention. But not KSA, probably UAE and possibly Oman (jeez --- take it with a grain of salt coming from me, I don't know that much, but I've seen the most IT-related job listings there and I've taken that anecdotal evidence to represent relative demand.)

[dmb]

[kirez]

I absolutely do NOT mean it to be derogatory. The relevant fact is that it lowers the cost (trouble, inconvenience, headache) of doing business, so businesses will prefer to deal with a group of Indians and/or Pakis than to mix various others into the group. Usually, if you're hiring employees, it's easier to get started in one network rather than source from a variety of different networks, which is another relevant factor.

I've worked with Indian and Paki programmers in the states and observed these situations myself, and I know it to be true of the industry generally.

Also (I hate having to constantly make these explanations of stats/prob) --- I'm not saying it's a rule 100% of the time, or there aren't exceptions. I'm only saying there is a tendency or probability, which affects the "chances" of getting a job and also colors the perceved environment.

[Arab Strap]

I think dmb is referring to your use of the term 'Paki', which as a North American you might not realise is akin with the 'n' word when talking about Afro-Americans/Blacks............

Moreover you've strayed a bit off topic here and I suspect that the OP has long since sought pastures new.

[kirez]

Oh geez! I'm really sorry, I had no idea.

I'm a newbie here, please tell me --- should I go back and edit my original use of the word, or what?

As I said, I've worked with Indians and Pakistanis and we used "Paki" just as shorter form, I've heard it many times and I *never* perceived anything suggesting it might be derogatory, nor any derisive attitude on the part of those using the term.

I absolutely didn't mean any offense by the term and I had no idea it could be used in an offensive way. Must one always say 'pakistani", then?

[guty]

Would either of you two Jocks find the use of 'Scot' offensive when referring to your unfortunate nationality?
It is a very common Australianism to shorten words.
Show a little respect for the guy's culture.
After all, IMHO it is not the word itself that is offensive, but the sentiment behind it. I've been called 'pal' and 'my friend' by a drunken Glaswegian and a 'pommie *beep*' in Sydney. One was quite offensive and one was quite touching.
Some people are too ready to take offence when clearly none was intended. Taking offence at a very common Australianism just shows a lack of cultural sensitivity and after all, isnt that why somebody might take offence in the first place?

[Sheikh Inal Ovar]

Is he an ozzy? Anyhow, just because a word is commonly used, it doesn't necessarily follow that the word is not offensive ... I'm sure the 'n' word was considered a common Southern Americanism by those that used it ...

If it's taken offensively by the people it describes, then it is by definition offensive ... the majority of Pakistanis in the UK would be offended by it ... so much so they they might respond with a common Englishism .. "^&*@ off!"

[Stephen Jones]

The 'p' word is particularly useful when referring to South Asians from other areas, particularly Indians. Annoys them no end!

The UAE is the place to go; some years ago they did a survey of IT salaries and the highest in the world were in the UAE and the lowest in Saudi (mainly I suspect because the Saudis gave monthly salary and everybody else yearly salary).

The big question is his knowledge of English. If it is rudimentary (and there is enough IT stuff available in Spanish for a DBA not to need English), then he will find it difficult.

[007]

QUOTE:

"While the term 'Paki' has been adopted by some young Asians, for many others it is a derogatory term of abuse with overtones of racism.

The BBC programme followed the use of the term 'Paki' over the decades. Although it was deemed acceptable in mainstream television coverage in the seventies and early eighties, for many British Asians today it remains a totally unacceptable form of racist abuse.

However, some young British Pakistanis are now trying to reclaim the word as a badge they are proud of. The move has been supported by entrepreneur Abdul Rahim who is making clothes with the logo 'Pak1' on them.

"There was Paki bashing. They were insulting, there is no other way of looking at this word."
Bradford Musician Aki Nawaz who appeared in the programme 'British, Paki and Proud' says he didn't realise it would be called that when he agreed to be interviewed. In a discussion on BBC Radio Leeds he says: "I'm disappointed with the title. I was told last week. If I had known the title in advance I would have said, 'I will not do it under that title'. The term being endorsed I have a real problem with, it is absolutely unacceptable."

Aki Nawaz has experienced racism himself with people using the word 'Paki' offensively: "As I was growing up in Bradford and Leeds I'd be walking around and people would be going 'get that Paki' and there was Paki bashing. They were insulting, there is no other way of looking at this word.

"The thought that in the streets people will be calling anyone - it doesn't matter whether you're Pakistani or not, if you're brown and you look Asian - 'that' word. The word is going to be used to abuse them. I think if you're a young women or have young children, the term can create a lot of psychological problems for them."
END OF QUOTE.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/features/2005/03/paki.shtml

[cmp45]

I would have to add that the shortened version IS a derogatory term for Pakistani. Just because there are some people using the so called term, be careful that you are not lulled into a complacent belief that it is acceptable. I would think this is general knowledge and most educated people should know this to be the case.

If I were you, I would go back and edit your message!

[Arab Strap]

Would either of you two Jocks find the use of 'Scot' offensive when referring to your unfortunate nationality?

I find Jock more offensive than Scot..................especially if it's preceded by 'sweaty sock'.................still wur awe Jock Tamson's bairns.

Can't for the life of me remember the Welsh for a*rse*oles to all English though, but would like to direct it at you for your wee quip about the 'unfortunate nationality'...............that's if you're a Sassanach guty

[Zlestial]

Kirez

Don't be intimidated by the exhibitionistic posturing of the PC attacks dogs.

They are definitely not offended by what you said but are using this event as an excuse to parade their �virtue�. Think of their communications as being mere noise, similar to the chirping of cicadas, whereby they locate like-minded wankers to reinforce their pretensions.

[guty]

Strappy,
it is the sentiment that matters not the word.
(by the way Jocko, I am a sassanach and spent many an hour pivoing with you in Oscars!!!!)
cmp45,
quite clearly no offence was meant by kirez, it is common usage in Australia, where Australian Pakistanis take no offence (or do you know otherwise?).

Why do the PC brigade expect everyone to know what might possibly offend anyone worldwide? And why do they dismiss Australian culture?

What next, get all Spanish speaking peoples to change their word for 'black'?

Racism is an attitude, not a word. A state of feeling superior. Do the people who tell me which words I can or can't use feel morally superior?

Deal with the cause, not the symptoms.

[kirez]

[007]