Job Discussion Forums

[Deicide]

I have been in Korea now for some 10 months. I have picked up a fair bit of Korean (unintentionally for the most part) and I have made some rather curious observations concerning Koreans and English as compared to say Germans.

Korean is an exclusively SOV language with no exceptions (to my knowledge); German is SVO is primary clauses (exlcusively so with regard to verb second order) and SOV in dependent and subordinate clauses (with some colloquial exceptions). Even in primary clauses, however, one will find a SOV tendency as in the case of modal verbs, in which one will find SVO(V). That said, from a purely synchronic point of comparison, German word order has much more in common with Korean word order and yet whilst I constantly hear Koreans saying things like 'I will to store tommorow go' or 'he many food take', I have never once in many years of experience with Germans heard a German form a similar construct, nor a Dutch native speaker (relatively similar word order to German). It baffles me and I cannot find a suitable explanation. It might be frequency of exposure (though many Korean kiddies are sent to English academies at age 5 or so) . Have any of you had similar experiences or can any of you offer plausible explanations?

[jonniboy]

It is a bit odd sometimes. Latvian, like Spanish, has only two genders but my Latvian students constantly mix up he and she in a way that my Spanish students never did.

Some mistakes just defy logic. There's no 'w' in Latvian so my students pronounce it as English 'v.' But when it comes to 'v' which is the same in English and Latvian they pronounce it as English 'w' !! It's a little frustrating.

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[Justin Trullinger]

Don't know enough about Korean, or Koreans, to offer any thoughts on the SVO error differences between them and Germans.

But I find the later comments on overgeneralizations of new sounds extremely interesting.

Spanish speakers have several that are practically universal.

Elementary students have no distinction between "b" and "v" sounds, as both letters make the same sound in Spanish. (Most similar to the English "b" but actual a bi-labial fricative, while in English it is a plosive.) At this level, they say things like "I lub my job."

Through some teachers diligence, they then become aware of the English "v" sound, and apply it to both letters. It now becomes "I love my jov."

Strangely enough, a lot of students never get past this, even at very advanced levels.

The "ng" sound is another frequent example. Students usually start out with no distinction between "NG" and simple "N." In the beginning, all gerunds get "cut" so we get words like "swimmeen" and "Be-een." Then, as they get the hang of it, there is a period of application of "ng" to all or most "n" endings. "I took a traing to visit my foreing friends in Londong."

Anybody know any good articles on this tendency?

All the best,
Justin

[John Hall]

The b/v confusion is common here in Costa Rica, but I have never noticed much of a problem with n/ng here.

[lozwich]

There's a really good book about this, I think its called Learner English? Its has chapters on how people with different L1 have different difficulties.

I'm teaching my students sing/sung this week. They can't do the ng for anything. They seem to also be having troubles with came and became. I've noticed this before, but I have absolutely no idea why it gives them so much grief.

[sheeba]

Could Topicalisation in sentences aid certain grammars more than others in forming canonical SVO orders ? The Topicalisation in Chinese as a core grammar aids students here in that they tacitly sense the markedness of the L1 constructions and treat them as non transferable .

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[MELEE]

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[John Hall]

Ditto for /s/ and /sh/ for the Japanese (as well as /r/ and /l/).

[JZer]

[JZer]

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[JZer]