Job Discussion Forums

[Chris_Crossley]

The Times Higher Educational Supplement (THES) is certainly one of the most trusted and authoritative sources on anything to do with tertiary and post-compulsory education in the world.

Then again, I'm biased, because I'm British!

[Miyazaki]

Frank,

You come across like a typical white, uneducated and arrogant Australian who has little knowledge about the 'outside world'. However, I'm glad that you're finally getting a chance to step outside of Australia and do some travelling. I hope it broadens your perspective on life.

So, with that said, let me respond to your personal attack by first restating my argument regarding the concerns over the lowering of standards at Australian universities and the drive to make more money off of foreign students (Asian students in particular).

AUSTRALIANS UMOTIVATED TO PURSUE POST GRAD DEGREES
First, not enough Australians are obtaining higher degrees, especially men. Once men get their Bachelour degree they get a job and that's it. They normally don't continue on to post grad studeies. Hence the push to reduce standards and make higher research degrees HECS exempt in order to inflate the number of Australians with post grad qualifications. In sum, overall, Australians are not keeping up with the rest of the world in obtaining higher research based degrees.

MONEY GRAB: GREEDY AUSTRALIAN UNIVERSITIES
Second, with the new Howard Government reforms threaten funding for universities, all Australian schools are pushing real hard for more international students to pick up the financial slack. In fact, it's the international students that do a lot to keep these schools/communities fat and sassy and give people like you jobs. Recruiting, marketing and advertising to Asian students by universities in Austalia is big business. Countries like Taiwan, China, Japan and Malaysia are aggressively targeted by Australian schools to compete for international students.

Consequently, the standards for admission have been lowered. In fact, it's scandalous. Not only have Australian universities devalued the post graduate degree by offering 'course work' only Master degrees, they also admit foreign students who can't speak or write in English at the post graduate level. There are many Australian and Asian students in these post graduate master programs that simply shouldn't be there.


ASIAN STUDENTS & POOR ENGLISH LANGUAGE SKILLS
There was a PhD student from Japan that I know who passed her IELTS and completed here PhD and when she applied for her permanant residency visa, her supervisor refused to write her a letter to confirm her English skills were good enough to avoid having to do further English testing. The rason: Her English was just not good enough.

I've also seen where Master degree stuents from Taiwan couldn't do their written work at a level that would normally be expected from post grad students. These students couldn't participate in seminar discussions because the didn't have the language skills.

Australian universities are admitting thousands of these students into their post grad programs because they want to make money off these students. Subsequently, program standards are reduced and unqualifeid students are admitted and pushed through these programs. In the end, this devalues the Austrlaian Master degree when compared with other Master degrees offered at schools in other countries such as Canada, America and the UK.

On the other hand, having to do a TOEFL, GRE and to write a dissertation in Canada, America or the UK is a much more time consuming, expensive and frustrating committment for Asian students. So when they see that Australian universities have lowered the standards for admission to post graduate programs as well as the criteria for completing them, many jump at the opportunity to do their degrees in Australia.

The programs offeered at Australian schools aren't even as rigorous as similar programs offered in countries like Taiwan or even Thailand, for example! Austrlaian universities have lowered the standards that much! It's now way too easy to obtain a master degree in Australia. Again, they're handing them out like candy to those with enough money.

AUSTRALIAN SCHOOLS DEVALUE THE MASTER DEGREE
It is generally accepted that Masters degrees are research degrees. The post grad students doing these degrees are expected to make a contribution to teh knowledge within their particular field of study. The work done by students for these degrees is must be an orginal peice of research, not merely going to the library and doing a report using secondary sources.

Furthermore, it is dishonest for Australian universites to even call these course work progams 'Master' degrees. They are significanlty different than the Master degree progams offered in Canada and America. In fact, the 6 course M.A. TESOL at Monash University or the 8 course M.A. TESOL at the University of Southern Queensland are nothing more than certificate courses in Canada. In Canada and America, 8 courses in a college or university business or criminology program will lead to a certificate and 16 courses will lead to a Diploma. Even a diploma in business or criminology in Canada and America is more rigorous than a Master degree in Australia!

It is therefore wrong to place the Australain Master degree qualifications at the same level as the Candian, American or UK Master degree qualifications. Australian Master degrees do not require the same level of scholarship as those Master degrees done in Canada and America.

Here are only but a few examples of major complaints about the quality of Australain universities:
The University of Southern Queensland Dubai Forced to Close Due to Low Quality Programs

Coursework Master Degrees Nothing but Repackaged Bachelor Degree Programs

So, don't be sorry Franky, but you need to understand that "postgraduates have been complaining for years about the poor quality of costly courses run by Australia's universities."

Australian universities are simply repackaging undergraduate subjects and calling the result a master's degree.

[Frankie Knuckles]

Miyazaki,

Are you trying to imply that white Australians are typically uneducated and arrogant? Do you include yourself in that generalisation? I am far from being a patriotic narrow-minded Australian. I actually supported England in the recent Ashes cricket series as I can't stand the Australian cricket team because they are amongst the most arrogant sportsmen in the whole world. I am often critical of my own country so please don't assume to know exactly where I am coming from and I what I believe.

I am doing postgraduate studies at the moment so if I am still uneducated when do you think I will finally be become educated. Perhaps when I have completed a phd. You said that you're glad that I have finally had a chance to travel outside Australia to broaden my horizons. What are you talking about?? How can you presume to know anything about my past?? I haven't just started travelling around the world recently as you seem to believe. I am far from being arrogant but I am just trying to give you some sort of an idea of my past experiences. I am now 32 years old and I have lived in a number of countries including England, Japan, Taiwan, the US and of course Australia. I have studied at two Melbourne universities as well as completing a semester exchange at a uni in the United States. I also studied Japanese at uni in Osaka, Japan. I have been very lucky to have the opportunity to travel internationally to more than 50 countries. I believe the knowledge I have gained through my travels and international education has certainly as you like to say broadened my perspective on life.

I am certainly not trying to imply that Australia's tertiary education system is without faults. Of course there are always areas where things can be improved. However, I strongly believe that your earlier claims about Australian standards being so low are grossly exaggerated. It would seem that a large proportion of international academics also agree with my views.

Frank

[Miyazaki]

Frank,

You started in on me with rude personal attacks.

Let's try and focus on the argument, not the person making the argument.

I can accept what you're saying but don't agree with you.

[sojourner]

Some of you might be interested to learn that in the most recent "Times Higher Education Supplement" world universities rankings list, Melbourne University has been ranked number 19 : http://theage.com.au/news/national/university-rankings/2005/10/27/1130382513166.html

Also, see : http://theage.com.au/articles/2005/10/27/1130367992544.html

Peter

[Chester]

Educated people can be so stupid.
such pontification...geeeez.
Infact from what i can see on the postings here, there are lots of pseudo intellectual brit snobs "teaching" in australia.
god help us all

[hilarybray]